Divorce, Remarriage and Preaching

[Salty]

But are you going to answer my questions?
1) Can a single man be a pastor?
2) Should a man step down as pastor when his wife dies - as he is no longer the husband of one wife


and let me add one more - do you agree with those churches who state that a pastor must not only be married but must also have children IAW I Tim 3:4

 

[Johnf]

I believe The Biblicist has covered this. A man who's wife had died has no scriptural dis-qualifiers. The bible is clear on this. Those who try to justify by "explaining" scriptures are grabbing a straw in my eyes. When you have to explain it to say what you want it to, you're most likely wrong.

 

[Salty]

I believe The Biblicist has covered this. A man who's wife had died has no scriptural dis-qualifiers. The bible is clear on this. Those who try to justify by "explaining" scriptures are grabbing a straw in my eyes. When you have to explain it to say what you want it to, you're most likely wrong.

But you seem not to understand my point - I Tim says "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife", therefore if he is no longer married (via death) then how can he be qualified to be a pastor?

Now lets take this a step further - if Paul meant that a divorced man could not be pastor - then why did he not use the word divorce?

 

[TCassidy]

1) Can a single man be a pastor?

Not a senior pastor. He lacks the marital and family experience necessary to allow him to counsel on marital and family issues.

2) Should a man step down as pastor when his wife dies - as he is no longer the husband of one wife

No. He has the marital and family experience necessary to allow him to counsel on marital and family issues.

 

[TCassidy]

Do you agree with those churches who state that a pastor must not only be married but must also have children IAW I Tim 3:4?

Yes.

 

[Salty]

A former drug user can be an effecive pastor as he has firsthand knowledge as he cousels on additiction. And likewise, a divorced pastor has the experience necessary to allow him to counsel on divorce

 

[TCassidy]

And likewise, a divorced pastor has the experience necessary to allow him to counsel on divorce

What caused his divorce and has he remarried?

He should be a married man, but he cannot be a polygamist; and must have only one wife, i.e. one at a time. It does not mean that, if he has been married, and his wife dies, he should never marry another.

Remember the hermeneutical law of shareability. What understanding would two guys, looking over Paul's shoulders, share regarding the meaning of what Paul was writing, remembering the two men are first century AD Jews living in the culture of that time and place?

The problem was polygamy. A Bishop must have one wife but he could not have more than one.

What is interesting is that Paul does not apply that same limitation to the general membership of the church!

 

[Johnf]

But you seem not to understand my point - I Tim says "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife", therefore if he is no longer married (via death) then how can he be qualified to be a pastor?

Now lets take this a step further - if Paul meant that a divorced man could not be pastor - then why did he not use the word divorce?

I do understand your point, I just think you are wrong.

A former drug user can be an effecive pastor as he has firsthand knowledge as he cousels on additiction. And likewise, a divorced pastor has the experience necessary to allow him to counsel on divorce

Like alcoholics, this has been covered. A man who has been drunk in the past, unless that drunkenness resulted in another sin, is no longer affected by that act. He's not drunk, or high for life. A person who is divorced remains divorced. I don't really see your point on the divorced guys being able to counsel other divorced people better. He may be able to understand the divorced person point of view better, but I don't think that's necessarily a good thing. I believe someone who had been a rocky period in their marriage and worked it out (everyone who's been married for more than 2 years) would be a better role model and counselor.

 

[annsni]

I do understand your point, I just think you are wrong.


Like alcoholics, this has been covered. A man who has been drunk in the past, unless that drunkenness resulted in another sin, is no longer affected by that act. He's not drunk, or high for life.

I have never met a former alcoholic who still does not have that struggle in their life.

A person who is divorced remains divorced.

So we are saying that a divorced person is committing the unforgiveable sin?

I don't really see your point on the divorced guys being able to counsel other divorced people better. He may be able to understand the divorced person point of view better, but I don't think that's necessarily a good thing. I believe someone who had been a rocky period in their marriage and worked it out (everyone who's been married for more than 2 years) would be a better role model and counselor.

Not necessarily - especially if he is not the divorcer but the divorcee. Let's say his wife left him for another man. The divorce was not his doing (although I'm not saying he had no part in the divorce). He sees what divorce does to his family and how it affected them. I actually appreciate the advice of those who have failed just as much as someone who has succeeded. Some of the best counsel on parenting I got was from people whose children did not grow up well.

 

[annsni]

You are free to think as you please but not free to invent your own facts. First, you don't know if all other five husbands were already dead and she was living outside of marriage with this man. Second, you don't know if Christ was speaking with regard to the Samaritan's own laws of divorce. Third, you are making death and divorce synonymous as your view makes both divorce and death equal grounds for remarriage whereas one is the act of God and the other an act of man. Fourth, you are making Christ contradict himself by adding another exception clause (Mt. 19). Instead of "except for fornication" you make him mean "except for fornication and divorce." Be careful how you handle God's Word and what motivations are behind how you handle it.

I am not inventing my own facts but instead reading the clear scriptures. Why would Jesus address the past husbands of the woman if they had all died? Didn't the woman say "Come, see a man who told me all that I ever did. Can this be the Christ?” What did she "ever did" if all of her marriages ended in the death of her husbands? I don't see how the interaction could be from anything other than at least one divorce. How do you say that I am adding another exception clause? I'm not doing any such thing. Again - clear reading of scripture says a lot.

 

[Johnf]

I have never met a former alcoholic who still does not have that struggle in their life.



So we are saying that a divorced person is committing the unforgiveable sin?

No, I'm saying that the scriptures say that a divorced man is no longer qualified to be a pastor.



Not necessarily - especially if he is not the divorcer but the divorcee. Let's say his wife left him for another man. The divorce was not his doing (although I'm not saying he had no part in the divorce). He sees what divorce does to his family and how it affected them. I actually appreciate the advice of those who have failed just as much as someone who has succeeded. Some of the best counsel on parenting I got was from people whose children did not grow up well.

I think we are putting way too much stock into how we feel about a person or a situation and less into what the scripture says. It's clear, there are no "what ifs". If he is divorced, he is no longer scripturaly qualified to be a pastor.

 

[Johnf]

I am not inventing my own facts but instead reading the clear scriptures. Why would Jesus address the past husbands of the woman if they had all died? Didn't the woman say "Come, see a man who told me all that I ever did. Can this be the Christ?” What did she "ever did" if all of her marriages ended in the death of her husbands? I don't see how the interaction could be from anything other than at least one divorce. How do you say that I am adding another exception clause? I'm not doing any such thing. Again - clear reading of scripture says a lot.

Was she a pastor?

 

[The Biblicist]

I am not inventing my own facts but instead reading the clear scriptures. Why would Jesus address the past husbands of the woman if they had all died? Didn't the woman say "Come, see a man who told me all that I ever did. Can this be the Christ?” What did she "ever did" if all of her marriages ended in the death of her husbands? I don't see how the interaction could be from anything other than at least on divorce. How do you say that I am adding another exception clause? I'm not doing any such thing. Again - clear reading of scripture says a lot.

I gave more than one possible scenario. If this was a man Christ was addressing, and these were called his wives, then you would argue divorce justified remarriage or else the second woman could not be called his wife, or third, or the fourth, or etc? And therefore, any divorced man, regardless of how many past wives he had divorced was now the "husband of one wife" and qualified for the office of Bishop? That is the consistent conclusion your line of reasoning leads to.

That is why doctrine is never established up illustrations, spiritualizations, parables, etc. but upon precepts FIRST and then things that support the clear precept. The overall context of the pastoral epistles make repeatedly clear that in the mind of Paul the Bishop set THE RIGHT EXAMPLE before the flock in all of these matters. Divorce is not the right example.

 

[annsni]

I gave more than one possible scenario. If this was a man Christ was addressing, and these were called his wives, then you would argue divorce justified remarriage or else the second woman could not be called his wife, or third, or the fourth, or etc? And therefore, any divorced man, regardless of how many past wives he had divorced was now the "husband of one wife" and qualified for the office of Bishop? That is the consistent conclusion your line of reasoning leads to.

That is why doctrine is never established up illustrations, spiritualizations, parables, etc. but upon precepts FIRST and then things that support the clear precept. The overall context of the pastoral epistles make repeatedly clear that in the mind of Paul the Bishop set THE RIGHT EXAMPLE before the flock in all of these matters. Divorce is not the right example.

I've never said any divorced person at all is qualified or unqualified for the office of bishop. Instead, I say that we see that there is before and after Christ. There is wisdom. There is such a thing as "but such were some of you." When we are saved, our sins are forgiven and we become a new creation. Not every man who has never been divorced is qualified to be a pastor nor is every man who has been divorced disqualified to be a pastor - it is based on his calling and his walk with the Lord and the circumstances of his divorce. A man who was divorced over 20 years ago before he was saved and since he was saved, he has led a life worthy of the calling of Christ is not disqualified for the ministry any more than a man who fathered an illegitimate child before he was saved would be.

 

[Johnf]

That's not what Paul said. I'm going with Paul.

 

[Yeshua1]

He is scripturaly disqualified from being a pastor. That does not mean he is incapable of ministering to people, just that he is not qualified to be in a leadership position.

He can still be ifis was a blibical allowed divorce though!

 

[Yeshua1]

I've never said any divorced person at all is qualified or unqualified for the office of bishop. Instead, I say that we see that there is before and after Christ. There is wisdom. There is such a thing as "but such were some of you." When we are saved, our sins are forgiven and we become a new creation. Not every man who has never been divorced is qualified to be a pastor nor is every man who has been divorced disqualified to be a pastor - it is based on his calling and his walk with the Lord and the circumstances of his divorce. A man who was divorced over 20 years ago before he was saved and since he was saved, he has led a life worthy of the calling of Christ is not disqualified for the ministry any more than a man who fathered an illegitimate child before he was saved would be.

IF it was biblical allowed divorce, then sould be allowed t still Pastor....

 

[The Biblicist]

I've never said any divorced person at all is qualified or unqualified for the office of bishop. Instead, I say that we see that there is before and after Christ. There is wisdom. There is such a thing as "but such were some of you." When we are saved, our sins are forgiven and we become a new creation. Not every man who has never been divorced is qualified to be a pastor nor is every man who has been divorced disqualified to be a pastor - it is based on his calling and his walk with the Lord and the circumstances of his divorce. A man who was divorced over 20 years ago before he was saved and since he was saved, he has led a life worthy of the calling of Christ is not disqualified for the ministry any more than a man who fathered an illegitimate child before he was saved would be.

The example of marriage in God's eyes is not until divorce do we part but one man and one wife as long as both shall live. That is the example and only example of God's idea of marriage that he wants to set forth as THE EXAMPLE to follow. Anything else is short of God's idea of marriage."Such were some of you" is not a qualification for bishop nor an example of Go. Scriptural divorce is not a qualification for Bishop nor the example of God's plan for marriage. One wife at a time is not a qualification for bishop or God's idea of marriage. What God wants to set before the congregation is THE EXAMPLE of what He designed marraige to be about - one man with one woman until death do they part as that is precisely the picture of marriage between His bride and himself.

If you want to know what EXAMPLE God wants before his flock or marriage look at His own example between Christ and the bride.

 

[The Biblicist]

IF it was biblical allowed divorce, then sould be allowed t still Pastor....

Scriptural divorce is not what God wants to set before the congregation at THE EXAMPLE for marriage as he hates divorce, scriptural or unscriptural. The example that God wants before the congregation is one man and one woman until death do they part not until divorce do they part.

 

[evangelist6589]

When you have time please post your thoughts on this subject, for and against. Please try to be polite and respectful, I know this topic can get the passions going. Do you think a divorced man can preach? Do you think he can Pastor? Do you think he can just preach and not Pastor? Thanks. https://scarletdblog.wordpress.com/

Yes he can preach. I see nothing in scripture forbidding this. However in a or other type of ultra conservative church perhaps not. A divorced man may need to join the ranks of a more laid back church environment.