Do ALL Calvinist Say that faith Itself Comes From God, is A Gift Directly?

[DHK]

Where did that faith come from which God foreseen? The only biblical answer for that is He provided it. That's aside from the fact that foreknew is speaking of people, not enents.

Dave

I am not supposed to post this because Camping said the rapture has already taken place, but anyway:

There is no Scripture that God provided faith. You are just going around in circles using human reason to try and defend a position that cannot be defended. As I posted before a child (even an infant) puts his faith in his parents rather than a stranger. The faith is not from God. Our faith is a well reasoned out faith based on the gospel. Faith comes from hearing and hearing the word of God. It doesn't come from God; it comes from hearing, and that is exactly what the Bible says contrary to what Calvin says.

 

[savedbymercy]

alive:

There is no contradiction.

Yes it was,I showed it to you..

 

[DHK]

allinall



Why did eve yield to temptation ? Was that not lust of the flesh ? Was her flesh weak as its stated in Rom 8:3a

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh,

Adam and Eve were created perfect. God looked on his creation and pronounced it "very good." He does not fail in anything he does. They lived in a dispensation of innocence. They were not under the law. Thus, what you quoted above does not apply here. They only discovered evil after they disobeyed God. They had not known evil before that time. They had no sin nature before sin entered into the world; before Adam's rebellion.

 

[Alive in Christ]

alive:



Yes it was,I showed it to you..

No. Different contexts

 

[savedbymercy]

No. Different contexts

Your pride will not let you admit it. Thats too bad..

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk:

Adam and Eve were created perfect.

They were created perfect for God's redemptive purpose in Christ.

They were not under the law.

They were under a Law of God Gen 2:16-17

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

They had no sin nature before sin entered into the world; before Adam's rebellion.

Explain why Eve Transgressed if she was perfect without a sin nature of flesh.. Do you deny that She lusted after the Tree in her flesh ?

Do you deny her flesh was weak ? Rom 8:3

 

[DHK]

dhk:



They were created perfect for God's redemptive purpose in Christ.



They were under a Law of God Gen 2:16-17

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.



Explain why Eve Transgressed if she was perfect without a sin nature of flesh.. Do you deny that She lusted after the Tree in her flesh ?

Do you deny her flesh was weak ? Rom 8:3

Does God make imperfect beings? Does God have flaws? Do you serve a God that in some ways does not measure up to perfection, and may have lied to you when he said at the end of creation:

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. (Genesis 1:31)

Was it very good or not. Did he lie about Eve not being perfect??

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk:

Does God make imperfect beings?

Answer my questions please..

 

[Alive in Christ]

Your pride will not let you admit it. Thats too bad..

You can think what you like...

 

[savedbymercy]

You can think what you like...

Thats what I think..

 

[DHK]

dhk:
They were created perfect for God's redemptive purpose in Christ.

You are a bit redundant here.

All things that God created are perfect.
All things that God created are for God's redemptive purpose.
Even the heavens declare his glory and the firmament shows forth his handiwork.

They were under a Law of God Gen 2:16-17

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

A law is not The Law. There is a difference; a difference in dispensations as well.

Explain why Eve Transgressed if she was perfect without a sin nature of flesh.. Do you deny that She lusted after the Tree in her flesh ?

Eve was tempted. In Genesis it does not say that Eve sinned.

Do you deny her flesh was weak ? Rom 8:3

It does not matter what I say. What matters is what the Bible says.
The Bible says that Adam sinned, and sin entered into this world through Adam.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5:12)

It was not through Eve, but through Adam, that sin entered the world.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk:

You lack understanding in "faith." Faith is not a work.

Yes it is, its keeping the Law Matt 23:23

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk:

A law is not The Law.

They were under God's law. You can deny it if you like.

It does not matter what I say. What matters is what the Bible says.

The bible says the flesh is weak Rom 8:

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Now was Eves flesh weak ?

Eve was tempted. In Genesis it does not say that Eve sinned.

It says it here 1 Tim 2:

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Why did she transgress ? You said she was perfect right ?

 

[DHK]

dhk:



Yes it is, its keeping the Law Matt 23:23

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

No "faith" is not not a "work." This is not translated as literally as it could have been.

Look at Young's Literal Translation here:

`Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye give tithe of the mint, and the dill, and the cumin, and did neglect the weightier things of the Law--the judgment, and the kindness, and the faith; these it behoved you to do, and those not to neglect. (Matthew 23:23)

The faith is that body of truth which we belief; it is not the trust and confidence that we put in the Lord. They had omitted "the faith," that is teaching it, keeping it, etc.

 

[DHK]

Why did she transgress ? You said she was perfect right ?

Answer your own question. You were the one that first said she was perfect.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk from post 103

Adam and Eve were created perfect.

 

[DHK]

dhk from post 103

Your "perfect" agreement from post #106

They were created perfect for God's redemptive purpose in Christ.

 

[Iconoclast]

dhk:



They were created perfect for God's redemptive purpose in Christ.



They were under a Law of God Gen 2:16-17

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.



Explain why Eve Transgressed if she was perfect without a sin nature of flesh.. Do you deny that She lusted after the Tree in her flesh ?

Do you deny her flesh was weak ? Rom 8:3

Good posts savedbymercy....you have used the proper verses needed to instruct any who would like to learn basic truth!:wavey::thumbs:

 

[DHK]

Good posts savedbymercy....you have used the proper verses needed to instruct any who would like to learn basic truth!:wavey::thumbs:

Good for what? (not intending to be sarcastic)
But I am asking what do these verses have to do with the OP:

Do ALL Calvinist Say that faith Itself Comes From God, is A Gift Directly?

She has gone off on a rabbit trail in effect derailing the thread, that is, unless you can show me otherwise--how this is relevant to "faith," is it from God or not (before salvation)?

 

[Van]

Reply to Allinall

Jesus is the Author (meaning originator) and Finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2).

The only ones who believe are those whom God grants the gift of faith (Phi 1:29), who God chooses to believe truth (2 The 2:13), who God calls, both from the Gentiles and Jews (1 Cor 1:23-24), who God appoints to eternal life (Acts 13:48), those whom the Father draws (John 6:44), etc.

That should be enough.

Dave

Thanks for sharing what you believe provides the biblical support for the "gift of faith."

My version of Hebrews 12:2 does not read, "...author and finisher (perfecter) of our faith." It reads, "...author and perfecter of faith." God created us with the capacity to trust in what we believe is the truth, and God provided through Christ, the message of the truth, the gospel of Christ. That makes God the author and perfecter of faith. So based on my understanding of this verse, it provides no support whatsoever for the "gift of faith."

The ESV, the HCSB, the NET and the NKJV adds "our" to the text, but it is not found in the Greek. The NASB, the NIV, YLT, Darby, and Wycliffe do not add "our."

My version of Philippians 1:29 does not read, "...The only ones who believe are those whom God grants the gift of faith." It reads, "For to you [Philippian believers] it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake." What this says is God did not preclude the Philippians from believing, He did not harden their hearts, and it also says He did not intervene and protect them from suffering for Christ's sake, He allowed it. So based on my understanding of the verse, it provides no support whatsoever for the gift of faith.

My version of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 does not read, "who God chooses to believe truth." It reads, ...,"because God has chosen you from the beginning [or as firstfruit] for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth." Thus it says God chose you based on faith in the truth, rather than to give you faith in the truth. So based on my understanding of the verse, it provides no support whatsoever for the gift of faith.

1 Corinthians 1:26-30 says God chooses ...things of this world, which puts the order, as being called, then being chosen. So God chooses those who respond to the call by trusting in Christ as determined by God who credits or not, our faith in Christ as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5.

Acts 13:48 does not say God appoints people so they believe. The word translated appointed mean an agreement by mutual consent, thus God, through Paul, laid out the requirement, and the Gentiles agreed, and therefore as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. They took Paul's direction to eternal life which required them to trust in Christ.
So no support for the gift of faith yet again.

And finally, God does not necessarily give to Christ everyone He draws with lovingkindness. Only those who have both understood and learned from the Father are given, and so the second and third soils of Matthew 13 understood but did not learn as required by God, and so were not given.
At the end of the day, there is no support in scripture for the so called "gift of pre-salvation faith."