Originally posted by Pastork:
Artimaeus,
This, then, is your case that the spiritual gift of teaching is no longer for today. However, haven't people always been able to learn to teach, even in the first century? And wouldn't your reasoning then dictate that there was never a gift of teaching? And wouldn't this fail to "match" with Scripture?
Pastork
People have, indeed, always had the ability to teach and the ability to learn. That is my point. The early church received somthing different. Something so extraordinary, so miraculous, so different than this, that it qualified to be called a "Gift of the Holy Spirit" There is no scirptural evidence for my denial of gifts for today except the scriptural evidence of what gifts were. If we don't have what the scripture says then we don't have the gifts.
Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; 7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; 8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.
Prophecy, faith, minister, teaching, exhorting, giving, ruling, showing mercy, are all things that ordinary, normal, caring people can do. Even the heathen, apostate, occult, and atheist, can and do practice such things to various degrees. Some are even very good at it. Carl Segan was an excellent teacher, Billy Graham is a most accomplished evangelist, Ted Turner is very good at giving, Joseph Smith was an outstanding leader, so was Hitler (an evil leader to be sure). How is the gift different with people who are gifted by the Holy Spirit than ordinary people who are not gifted but still are good at that particular characteristic?
I Cor 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
The answer to these rhetorical questions is, "No" Ignored by all who claim tongues is for everyone. The evidence for the frequency of gifts seems nowadays to be based on the ease with which someone can emulate it with or without the gift. A gift is freely given, not earned, learned, or deserved. Someone can do something so profound that people are amazed, not merely impressed.
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Your definition of what a gift is must be something more than the ordinary, natural, human ability. Otherwise, how would it be a special "gift"?
Why did you pick teaching instead of Healing, Tongues, or Miracles? It is because that is easier to emulate and claim. It is impossible to take a man dead for three days and restore his life, it is impossible to immediately heal a physically deforming birth defect, it is impossible for a man who hasn't learned a foreign language to suddenly begin speaking it fluently. The only explanation for these events are that they are from God. There is no reason to believe that the other gifts were any different. When practiced they resulted in impossible results. Impossible, that is, without the Holy Spirit. That was their purpose, to demonstate to everyone that God was in what they were doing.
