Do Calvinists believe anyone has free will?

[Luke2427]

A better syllogism would work like this:

Nothing comes to pass which God has not determined.
Things do come to pass.
Therefore the things that do come to pass have been determined by God.

 

[Benjamin]

I think your syllogism is sound.

The problem is that it does not at all address volition.

Ahh, but I'm asking "you" to define volition while maintaining your view (which I have defined and you have now agreed this is a "sound" representation of the determinist view)?

Now, I have addressed volition in that I have argued that it is mutually exclusive with determinism (your view).

You can't have it both ways (own free will and determinism) unless you can prove they are not mutually exclusive to begin with.

Edit: I probably shouldn't complicate this because I want you to stick to the premise, but I will go a step further and state if determism is true then you will have to hold to this truth...and not weasel away from it to claim "free will".

 

[Luke2427]

Ahh, but I'm asking "you" to define volition while maintaining your view (which I have defined and you have now agreed this is a "sound" representation of the determinist view)?

Now, I have addressed volition in that I have argued that it is mutually exclusive with determinism (your view).

You can't have it both ways (own free will and determinism) unless you can prove they are not mutually exclusive to begin with.

I haven't seen you argue that volition is incompatible with determinism.

 

[Luke2427]

All I have seen you argue is that determinism mean that whatever God determines must necessarily come to pass and that God determines all things.

You have not proven how this correct view is incompatible with human volition.

 

[Benjamin]

All I have seen you argue is that determinism mean that whatever God determines must necessarily come to pass and that God determines all things.

You have not proven how this correct view is incompatible with human volition.

BZZZZT...another fallacy, I can't prove a negative. But, I ask you to prove the two (determinism and free will) are compatible, a positive. If you can't "hold" to a definition of determinism to begin with then logically you have no valid argument to stand on. That's why I started with the basics in the argument to first get you to agree on a definition of "your" view of determinism....because then I'm going to want you to "define" a view of "free will" that "is" compatible with your view.

You are the one who said we need to start with a definition of free will, all I'm asking for is for you to give one that is compatible with determinism (as defined).

I don't really expect a logical answer...cause there isn't one. :smilewinkgrin:

I got to go to :sleep:

Peace

 

[Luke2427]

BZZZZT...another fallacy, I can't prove a negative. But, I ask you to prove the two (determinism and free will) are compatible, a positive. If you can't "hold" to a definition of determinism to begin with then logically you have no valid argument to stand on. That's why I started with the basics in the argument to first get you to agree on a definition of "your" view of determinism....because then I'm going to want you to "define" a view of "free will" that "is" compatible with your view.

You are the one who said we need to start with a definition of free will, all I'm asking for is for you to give one that is compatible with determinism (as defined).

I don't really expect a logical answer...cause there isn't one. :smilewinkgrin:

I got to go to :sleep:

Peace

There is nothing about my definition of free will that is INCOMPATIBLE with determinism.

Free will is the ability to do what you want to do.

Prove that that is incompatible with determinism.

 

[Iconoclast]

humans have self will but it is not free