Do Calvinists hold a different gospel?

[JonC]

Recently @kenhsaid that Calvinists hold a different gospel from traditional Christianity.

That peaks my interest because when I was a Calvinist I did not hold a gospel different from what I hold now. My Calvinistic friends and I, although we disagree on theories about the gospel, hold the exact same gospel.

I freely admit that when I was a Calvinist I believed theories about the gospel that were extra-biblical. But the gospel itself was the same.

This is impirtant because the gospel I have believed since I was saved, as a Calvinist, and now that I have abandoned Calvinism has not changed. It is "what is written" in the Bible.

I believed then, as I believe now, that the gospel is the power of God to salvation for those who believe, but to those who are perishing it is foolishness. As such, I believe that God gave us an accurate gosoel in His Word (in "what is written") rather than revealing it to theologians as what the gospel "really" is.

So, I thought I'd ask here.

Do Calvinist's really depart from the actual gospel of Jesus Christ as it is written in the text of Scripture?

If so, what is this "other gospel" and is it capable of saving just like the gospel in God's Word is this power of God unto salvation?

 

[Charlie24]

Recently @kenhsaid that Calvinists hold a different gospel from traditional Christianity.

That peaks my interest because when I was a Calvinist I did not hold a gospel different from what I hold now. My Calvinistic friends and I, although we disagree on theories about the gospel, hold the exact same gospel.

I freely admit that when I was a Calvinist I believed theories about the gospel that were extra-biblical. But the gospel itself was the same.

This is impirtant because the gospel I have believed since I was saved, as a Calvinist, and now that I have abandoned Calvinism has not changed. It is "what is written" in the Bible.

I believed then, as I believe now, that the gospel is the power of God to salvation for those who believe, but to those who are perishing it is foolishness. As such, I believe that God gave us an accurate gosoel in His Word (in "what is written") rather than revealing it to theologians as what the gospel "really" is.

So, I thought I'd ask here.

Do Calvinist's really depart from the actual gospel of Jesus Christ as it is written in the text of Scripture?

If so, what is this "other gospel" and is it capable of saving just like the gospel in God's Word is this power of God unto salvation?

What? No Calvinist wants to talk about their Gospel of limited atonement?

 

[Silverhair]

Recently @kenhsaid that Calvinists hold a different gospel from traditional Christianity.

That peaks my interest because when I was a Calvinist I did not hold a gospel different from what I hold now. My Calvinistic friends and I, although we disagree on theories about the gospel, hold the exact same gospel.

I freely admit that when I was a Calvinist I believed theories about the gospel that were extra-biblical. But the gospel itself was the same.

This is impirtant because the gospel I have believed since I was saved, as a Calvinist, and now that I have abandoned Calvinism has not changed. It is "what is written" in the Bible.

I believed then, as I believe now, that the gospel is the power of God to salvation for those who believe, but to those who are perishing it is foolishness. As such, I believe that God gave us an accurate gosoel in His Word (in "what is written") rather than revealing it to theologians as what the gospel "really" is.

So, I thought I'd ask here.

Do Calvinist's really depart from the actual gospel of Jesus Christ as it is written in the text of Scripture?

If so, what is this "other gospel" and is it capable of saving just like the gospel in God's Word is this power of God unto salvation?

If a calvinist explained the gospel according to their TULIP/DoG how many people do you think would be saved. There in lays the problem for them. What they would have to preach would not be good news.

But what do they preach? They have to present a gospel that contradicts their whole theology.

Here is a presentation by Todd Friel of Wretched {calvinist/reformed} so you see that even they must turn to freewill in order to present the Gospel message. His explanation starts at 26 second mark.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

the only thing I see a calvinist sees different is when regeneration takes place.

In the end. Both believe forgiveness of sin is based on faith, they just believe one is born again before faith. where the rest of us believe it occurs as a result of us recieving the gift of God in faith

 

[JonC]

the only thing I see a calvinist sees different is when regeneration takes place.

In the end. Both believe forgiveness of sin is based on faith, they just believe one is born again before faith. where the rest of us believe it occurs as a result of us recieving the gift of God in faith

I disagree here.

Calvinism does not believe forgiveness is based on faith (although some may hold the realization one has been forgiven is dependent on faith).

Calvinism sees God as unable to forgive sins, but able to allow sinners to escaoe punishment as long as the sins are ultimately punished.

God punished our sins laid on Jesus, therefore our sins are forgiven.

 

[Silverhair]

the only thing I see a calvinist sees different is when regeneration takes place.

In the end. Both believe forgiveness of sin is based on faith, they just believe one is born again before faith. where the rest of us believe it occurs as a result of us recieving the gift of God in faith

If you listen to most calvinists they will tell you they were elected before creation based on their misunderstanding of Eph 1:4. Following their logic if one is elected before creation then there was not the possibility that they would end up in hell, in other words they were saved. For the consistent calvinist they have to believe they were saved before creation and faith in Christ Jesus has nothing to do with it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I disagree here.

Calvinism does not believe forgiveness is based on faith (although some may hold the realization one has been forgiven is dependent on faith).

Calvinism sees God as unable to forgive sins, but able to allow sinners to escaoe punishment as long as the sins are ultimately punished.

God punished our sins laid on Jesus, therefore our sins are forgiven.

I never heard this from any calvinist. Just saying, I will have to do some research

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If you listen to most calvinists they will tell you they were elected before creation based on their misunderstanding of Eph 1:4. Following their logic if one is elected before creation then there was not the possibility that they would end up in hell, in other words they were saved. For the consistent calvinist they have to believe they were saved before creation and faith in Christ Jesus has nothing to do with it.

Most Calvinists I know are afraid of faith. afraid if I say I had faith and that faith saved me, I saved myself.

So their faith had to be a gift of God given to them through regenerating them. so they could believe.

Hence God saved them

But he with holds the ability of the non elect to even have an opportunity to have faith. hence he condemns them to hell

I call this fatalistic theology based on a misinterpretation in romans 9 that God condemned one baby to hell and one he saved forever before either was even born.. God loved on baby in the womb and not the other. he hated the other..

 

[Zaatar71]

I never heard this from any calvinist. Just saying, I will have to do some research

Of course you never heard it from any Calvinist, because they stick to bible truth, not false narratives and novelties.

 

[Zaatar71]

Most Calvinists I know are afraid of faith. afraid if I say I had faith and that faith saved me, I saved myself.

So their faith had to be a gift of God given to them through regenerating them. so they could believe.

Hence God saved them

But he with holds the ability of the non elect to even have an opportunity to have faith. hence he condemns them to hell

I call this fatalistic theology based on a misinterpretation in romans 9 that God condemned one baby to hell and one he saved forever before either was even born.. God loved on baby in the womb and not the other. he hated the other..

Silverhair is not close to truth as he confesses he does not understand Eph,1 at all, Many try and help him, but he does not want help.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Of course you never heard it from any Calvinist, because they stick to bible truth, not false narratives and novelties.

I highly doubt this my friend..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Silverhair is not close to truth as he confesses he does not understand Eph,1 at all, Many try and help him, but he does not want help.

eph 1:

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

which part does he not understand?

 

[Zaatar71]

I highly doubt this my friend..

We could discuss that!

 

[Silverhair]

Silverhair is not close to truth as he confesses he does not understand Eph,1 at all, Many try and help him, but he does not want help.

When have I said I do not understand Eph 1 Z? More than once I have pointed out the error of calvinists in regard to Eph 1.

I have said that I do not understand how someone that claims to trust the bible, such as you Z, can misunderstand Eph 1 or many other verses in God's word.

 

[Zaatar71]

eph 1:

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

which part does he not understand?

Hello EG,
Ephesians does not start at vs.13....In Ephesians 1 vs. 3-14 is actually one sentence in the original text. It should be read from 3 to 14.
A person starting at 13, and cutting out....
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Is simply being dishonest, and taking the work of God, and making it a man centered work, and not the action of God upon the Elect.

 

[Zaatar71]

When have I said I do not understand Eph 1 Z? More than once I have pointed out the error of calvinists in regard to Eph 1.

I have said that I do not understand how someone that claims to trust the bible, such as you Z, can misunderstand Eph 1 or many other verses in God's word.

see post 15, we posted at the same time

 

[Silverhair]

Hello EG,
Ephesians does not start at vs.13....In Ephesians 1 vs. 3-14 is actually one sustenance in the original text. It should be read from 3 to 14.
A person starting at 13, and cutting out....
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Is simply being dishonest, and taking the work of God, and making it a man centered work, and not the action of God upon the Elect.

Care to explain how faith is a work?

What does Eph 1:13-14 say? we hear the gospel we believe the gospel and God saves us. We see the same thing in Rom 10:9-10. And what about Rom 1:16 the gospel is the power of God to salvation for those that believe.

I should add what John said:
Joh 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

By your logic, since you equate faith to work, God expects us to work for our salvation. Not what the bible tells us but you seem to be going there.

 

[Zaatar71]

Care to explain how faith is a work?

What does Eph 1:13-14 say? we hear the gospel we believe the gospel and God saves us. We see the same thing in Rom 10:9-10. And what about Rom 1:16 the gospel is the power of God to salvation for those that believe.

By your logic, since you equate faith to work, God expects us to work for our salvation. Not what the bible tells us but you seem to be going there.

Do you hate the teaching of vs4-5 Silverhair?
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

What do you not see here? Vs13, 14, are the results of vs4-5, not the cause! It cannot be written any clearer, can it?

Faith is an instrument, saving faith is the gift of God. men do not have saving faith in and of themselves. It is given or graced to them. men trying to work up a man made faith, which is in reality not saving faith, but rather a human trust, is a work. They are saying man must do something, in order to be saved. man must add something. That is why the man centered idea , is said to be a word. That is something men do.

 

[Zaatar71]

here from another thread;
In the decree of election, the first act is a purpose or rather a part and beginning of the divine purpose whereby God does take certain men which are to be created to His everlasting love and favor, passing by the rest, and by taking makes them vessels of mercy and honor. And this act is of the sole will of God without any respect either of good or evil in the creature.

 

[Silverhair]

Do you hate the teaching of vs4-5 Silverhair?
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

What do you not see here? Vs13, 14, are the results of vs4-5, not the cause! It cannot be written any clearer, can it?

That you have clearly misunderstood vs 4 is what cause you so many problems Z. Why do you read verses in isolation. As you rightly said 3-14 is one sentence so must be read that way. God's plan is that we would be chosen in Christ and Paul lays out the means for us to be in Christ, faith in Him.

You seem to think you were chosen without believing in Christ which is clearly not a biblical position as I pointed out in my post.