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"The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because generally they are the same people."
G.K. Chesterton
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Do Christians Believe they have received Divine truth ?
- Thread starter Iconoclast
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"The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because generally they are the same people."
G.K. Chesterton
Can we go back the OP for a moment? @Iconoclast asked two questions. 1. Do posters believe what they are posting is divinely revealed truth. 2. Do they believe what they are posting are religious notions. My first post in this thread stated that it depends on the poster. If I were to turn the OP into a declarative I could confidentiality write that some posters believe they are posting divine truth while others are posting notions of one sort of another.
I think the majority of posters in this thread agree that only the Word of God is divine truth, not our interpretation or application of it.
I surmise that Icon's point is that no person of goodwill posts on a conviction they hold to without believing it is true. If they base their belief on scripture, no one can question their integrity. This does not mean their conclusion is correct. It means if they are being honest in their post (not trolling or engaging is self-aggrandizment), then we should accept the sincerity of their words.
I am not going to tip-toe around the elephant in the room. Some individuals in this thread have a history and it seems to be coloring their comments. Speaking only for myself, I think it is helpful to state that I base my doctrinal positions on scripture alone. Other sources aided my understanding but it still came down to scripture plus nothing else.
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I think the majority of posters in this thread agree that only the Word of God is divine truth, not our interpretation or application of it.
I surmise that Icon's point is that no person of goodwill posts on a conviction they hold to without believing it is true. If they base their belief on scripture, no one can question their integrity. This does not mean their conclusion is correct. It means if they are being honest in their post (not trolling or engaging is self-aggrandizment), then we should accept the sincerity of their words.
I am not going to tip-toe around the elephant in the room. Some individuals in this thread have a history and it seems to be coloring their comments. Speaking only for myself, I think it is helpful to state that I base my doctrinal positions on scripture alone. Other sources aided my understanding but it still came down to scripture plus nothing else.
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I want to revisit this post. It will help clear up the issue, at least for me.
@Iconoclast, do you believe that Calvinism is divine truth?
How about you, @Reformed ?
You know my view, Calvinism is my understanding of divine truth, not divine truth itself.
Jon, I wrote this earlier in the thread. The Word of God is divine truth. I believe Calvinism* to be true because I believe that is what the Word teaches. I do not believe my understanding is divine truth. I am still a finite being who is tainted by sin. I prefer to answer it is way so it does not appear I am elevating a doctrine above scripture. Only scripture is inspired.
*When I reference Calvinism I specifically mean the Reformed view of soteriology, not the whole of John Calvin's theology.
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Thank you for the reply.
To clarify, unconditional election refers to God choosing men to be saved apart from any merit in men. We both believe this. But Scripture does not frame election in that exact form (the text of Scripture allows for a couple of perspectives).
Do you believe that the context Calvinism provides in interpretation is also divinely inspired (as inspired as the text itself)?
If so, how is this not a second special revelation?
Also, is there then no objective standard for truth (as both Calvinists and non-Calvinists can claim their interpretation divine truth?
I ask because this serms very much feeling based. Scripture tells us to test these things, but if the understanding itself is considered to be divine truth (e.g., if Calvinism is considered to be divine truth rather than an understanding of divine truth) then the only test is human acceptance.
You have arrived at the heart of the issue.
Paragraph 3 walks through a summary of what this is about.
NO postings on this or any other Board are inspired, as none of us have Apostolic guidance, but when we quote the Bible, that is always truth, even though our understanding might be flawed!
Jon, it is objectively based. When I consider what the Bible teaches about soteriology, I see a clear and convincing case for the Reformed view. It is not lost on me that Arminians see a clear and convincing case for their view but that does not concern me because I believe they are wrong. Let me state it another way. I believe the Bible testifies of itself that total depravity, total inability, unconditional election, the effectual call et. al are true. Similarly, the Trinity, Hypostatic Union, priesthood of believers et. al are proven correct. So, instead of saying, "Calvinism/Trinity/Hypostatic Union is divine truth", we should say that our understanding of scripture proves these doctrines to be true. This gives the final authority to scripture. Our understanding will always be involved because we have no other means of appropriating knowledge.
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Thanks. I agree that the final authority is Scripture.
I guess the difference is that it seems less objective when we consider that our understanding of Scripture proves certain doctrines to be true (especially when they are reasoned out doctrines).
I'd prefer to say "this is what I believe" and "this why (providing the scriptures from which the doctrine was derived)".
For example, while the kenosis is proven by Scripture to be correct (it is actually scripture itself) our doctrine of the kenosis is less objective. The same is true with the doctrine of the Trinity. The Trinity is a biblical truth. But when we look at many of our doctrines they get into philosophical issues (e.g., what constitutes "person", what constitutes "separate", etc).
I think it is always best to simply state our belief and then discuss/ provide scripture to back up our understanding.
I agree.
In fact, I had made the same observation a couple of pages ago to a few others. I believe that this is obvious when we go down the flow of the posts.
That is what most of us do on a regular basis. I think the OP had a specific purpose for phrasing things the way it did.
I agree (on both accounts).
The best lecture/ sermon I heard on the differing opinions in terms of Calvinism and non-Calvinism (and the finite state of the "human condition") was by C.H. Spurgeon. It was in his sermon "God's will, Man's will" (one of my favorites, under "Chosen Portions and a set of Spurgeon's notes that had been gifted me a few years ago).
Charles Spurgeon on this:
"It is one thing to believe in the doctrines of grace, but quite another thing to accept all the encrustations which have formed upon those doctrines and also a very different matter to agree with the spirit which is apparent in some who profess to propagate the pure truth." ― "Rivers Of Water In A Dry Place"
"It is one thing to believe in the doctrines of grace, but quite another thing to accept all the encrustations which have formed upon those doctrines and also a very different matter to agree with the spirit which is apparent in some who profess to propagate the pure truth." ― "Rivers Of Water In A Dry Place"
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Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Studying The Bible is fun.
The Divine Inspiration of The Bible has been Superintended and Preserved to this day.
The Bible Contains The Divinely Inspired Revelation of The Trice-Holy, Divine, Eternal Godhead.
The Believer's soul that has been Spiritually Re-generated from the dead, is now a Partaker of The Divine Nature.
Christian's Receive Divine Truth.
Jesus said, "I Came not to Judge the World, but the Words I Speak into you, They Will Judge them at the Last Day."
How did He Know His Words would be Recorded, Preserved and read by us, and then to be there to Judge with, at the Last Day?
Jesus is Divine.
I know that Divine Revelation of God, as a Christian.
The Divine Inspiration of The Bible has been Superintended and Preserved to this day.
The Bible Contains The Divinely Inspired Revelation of The Trice-Holy, Divine, Eternal Godhead.
The Believer's soul that has been Spiritually Re-generated from the dead, is now a Partaker of The Divine Nature.
Christian's Receive Divine Truth.
Jesus said, "I Came not to Judge the World, but the Words I Speak into you, They Will Judge them at the Last Day."
How did He Know His Words would be Recorded, Preserved and read by us, and then to be there to Judge with, at the Last Day?
Jesus is Divine.
I know that Divine Revelation of God, as a Christian.
As the OP is now banned this thread is closed.
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