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Do KJVO place the KJV same par as the Greek NT?
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Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
In as much as the KJV (or any other translation) accurately represents the original text, they carry the same authority and trustworthiness.
Just exactly where are these preserved scriptures in the original languages? I am sure many scholars would love to get a look at them.
Aren't the original language texts actually where God preserve to us His Word though?
that we have english versions that can be seen as being the word of god due to THOSE texts being preserved for us?
Originally Posted by Logos1560
Those who claim that the KJV is the final authority would be making the KJV a greater authority than the preserved Scriptures in the original languages.
Just exactly where are these preserved scriptures in the original languages?
I am sure many scholars would love to get a look at them.
Are you suggesting that the early English translators and the KJV translators did not have the preserved Scriptures in the original languages and that the KJV was not translated from original language texts?
Are you suggesting that the KJV translators were wrong when they maintained that the preserved Scriptures in the original languages were the proper standard and authority for the trying of all translations?
Do you think that the KJV translators were wrong to use and consult multiple varying textual sources?
just look for the aisle in Bible store, where the TR/MT/CT Greek texts hang out in the scholar aisle!
Which one? There are many various texts, they cannot all be the preserved word of God if they are different from each other.
Which is preserved, the Critical Text, or the Received Text? They cannot both be preserved and infallible because they are VERY different from each other.
So, which one is the perfectly preserved text in the original languages?
Honestly think some KJVO folks think that God replaced the originals with the Kjv directly, as theHS inspired thetranslators to make a perfect version into English out of heaven itself!
They just wrote in English, and it inspired out!
saturneptune
New Member
Best answer of the thread.
Inspector Javert
Active Member
You don't "think" that.................you already "know" that. But that isn't the purpose of your post. Those who DO think that are rare, few and far-between.........and they are also insane. There is, however, no one I know of on this board who believes that, so what is the relevance or purpose on this thread? It's meaningless to introduce that concept since basically no one here will defend the notion.
My guess is that your purpose is this:
Bring up a rare and non-represented P.O.V. held only by certain extremists, and introduce it into Baptist Board in order to "Poison the Well" against those who are KJVO, despite the fact that NONE of them would defend that proposition....
I'm pretty close to the mark with your purpose here, aren't I? :wavey:
Inspector Javert
Active Member
:thumbsup: Agreed; concision, honesty and brevity....who'da thunk it!!
Inspector Javert
Active Member
They would actually be making them "equal-to"....not "greater". The position they hold is that there is 100% confidence that the KJV accurately represents what the "Originals" stated. That's all; nothing more and nothing less.
To then compare the two: "Originals VS. KJV" is meaningless and beside the point since the position of the KJVO's is generally that they say precisely the same thing.
That statement is only true if you presuppose that they disagree at any point (as you do)....KJVO's don't believe that's the case, so your point is non-applicable and moot. You can't super-impose your pre-supposition of the KJV's inaccuracy ONTO the back of a position which denies your premise.
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
My "Take" On This...
The OP is..Do KJVO place the KJV same par as the Greek NT?
As to the OP I would expand that to include the Masoretic text of the OT as well since the discussion should be about the ENTIRE Word of God. The CT's and MV's make alterations to both. In any case...the correct (in my opinion) answer to the OP is a simple YES...we do. However, I will acknowledge that there are some that take that a step further and try to say that the KJV is ADVANCED revelation to the Hebrew and Greek and I don't for one second personally believe that is true. Neither do I as a KJVO, believe in any form of double inspiration. I believe the KJV is the PRESERVED ENGLISH EQUIVALENT to the Original Hebrew and Greek just as the translation of the Greek and Hebrew into ANY OTHER LANGUAGE besides English (using the right family of underlying Original language texts) would be the PRESERVED EQUIVALENT into those languages.
I don't believe in any FRESH acts of "Inspiration" after the canon of scripture was complete but I do believe that God the Holy Spirit would be and is an active participant in the preservation/transmission/translation of the text of His Word down through the years and has protected it in ways that none of us will ever be able to adequately or clearly understand or explain. It is His Word and as such there will always be some mysteries surrounding it until they are possibly revealed and made clear to us in Heaven. Since it IS His Word there is an attendant requirement of perfection that must/has been maintained in it's transmission or there would be a dilution/erosion of it's infallibility/authority. It is for that reason that KJVO's are so doggedly determined to uphold/defend the perfection of the Book. God's Word simply can't be authoritative if it is riddled with the kind of errors that the CT/MV crowd suggest. To be fair...the honest ones will also say that their CT/MV's contain those same kind of errors as well.....but in my experience I have usually noted that the ONLY errors they willingly seem to discuss much are the ones they think are in the KJV. In that they are usually being subjective because they are trying to compare the KJV to the Critical Text which is like comparing Apples to Oranges. The KJV isn't derived from the CT.
Anyway...that's what I think and believe on the matter. It is ALSO the LIMIT of my understanding of the matter since I speak neither Greek nor Hebrew. I shall now recede to my corner and await my beating.
Bro.Greg:saint:
The OP is..Do KJVO place the KJV same par as the Greek NT?
As to the OP I would expand that to include the Masoretic text of the OT as well since the discussion should be about the ENTIRE Word of God. The CT's and MV's make alterations to both. In any case...the correct (in my opinion) answer to the OP is a simple YES...we do. However, I will acknowledge that there are some that take that a step further and try to say that the KJV is ADVANCED revelation to the Hebrew and Greek and I don't for one second personally believe that is true. Neither do I as a KJVO, believe in any form of double inspiration. I believe the KJV is the PRESERVED ENGLISH EQUIVALENT to the Original Hebrew and Greek just as the translation of the Greek and Hebrew into ANY OTHER LANGUAGE besides English (using the right family of underlying Original language texts) would be the PRESERVED EQUIVALENT into those languages.
I don't believe in any FRESH acts of "Inspiration" after the canon of scripture was complete but I do believe that God the Holy Spirit would be and is an active participant in the preservation/transmission/translation of the text of His Word down through the years and has protected it in ways that none of us will ever be able to adequately or clearly understand or explain. It is His Word and as such there will always be some mysteries surrounding it until they are possibly revealed and made clear to us in Heaven. Since it IS His Word there is an attendant requirement of perfection that must/has been maintained in it's transmission or there would be a dilution/erosion of it's infallibility/authority. It is for that reason that KJVO's are so doggedly determined to uphold/defend the perfection of the Book. God's Word simply can't be authoritative if it is riddled with the kind of errors that the CT/MV crowd suggest. To be fair...the honest ones will also say that their CT/MV's contain those same kind of errors as well.....but in my experience I have usually noted that the ONLY errors they willingly seem to discuss much are the ones they think are in the KJV. In that they are usually being subjective because they are trying to compare the KJV to the Critical Text which is like comparing Apples to Oranges. The KJV isn't derived from the CT.
Anyway...that's what I think and believe on the matter. It is ALSO the LIMIT of my understanding of the matter since I speak neither Greek nor Hebrew. I shall now recede to my corner and await my beating.
Bro.Greg:saint:
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
Thank You...
Thank You Inspector...I appreciate the fact that you employed the word EQUAL into the conversation before I could get my post submitted. The Originals will never lose their FINAL AUTHORITY(even though they no longer PHYSICALLY exist here on earth). All we are saying, as KJVO's is, that the KJV MAINTAINS that authority.
Bro.Greg:saint:
Thank You Inspector...I appreciate the fact that you employed the word EQUAL into the conversation before I could get my post submitted. The Originals will never lose their FINAL AUTHORITY(even though they no longer PHYSICALLY exist here on earth). All we are saying, as KJVO's is, that the KJV MAINTAINS that authority.
Bro.Greg:saint:
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Do you have any proof for that contention?
As do all other legitimate translations of God's Word.
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
Honestly?
Honestly...I have accepted the word of men more educated than I that this is the truth....just like you have(to the contrary) (if you don't believe it to be so).
I will agree that all LEGITIMATE translations ARE accurate and faithful representations of that FINAL AUTHORITY. I'm equally sure that you and I would NOT agree as to what those "legitimate" translations actually are. No point to drag all that stuff back out. It has been stated and re-stated and argued and re-argued here many times. The whole issue is quite polarized.
Bro.Greg:saint:
Honestly...I have accepted the word of men more educated than I that this is the truth....just like you have(to the contrary) (if you don't believe it to be so).
I will agree that all LEGITIMATE translations ARE accurate and faithful representations of that FINAL AUTHORITY. I'm equally sure that you and I would NOT agree as to what those "legitimate" translations actually are. No point to drag all that stuff back out. It has been stated and re-stated and argued and re-argued here many times. The whole issue is quite polarized.
Bro.Greg:saint:
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Finally... Someone who knows what they are talking about. Very refreshing! :thumbs:
DrJamesAch
New Member
What is ironic is that the KJVO critics use the EXACT same logic to support their modern versions that they use to ATTACK the KJV.
They say the KJV can not be the true word of God because it is based on not a single Greek or Hebrew text, but a compilation of texts. Yet when they attempt to vouch for which versions are the word of God, they say "All of them".
Thus the KJVO critics will use the compilation of several different translations and texts to claim that all of the modern versions are the word of God, and use the exact same argument to condemn the KJV.
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