Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
Before I answer more thoroughly, have you ever read what she said about this question of yours?
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Do The SDA See Ellen White As Modern Prophetess Then?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
I can agree to that statement.
Incorrect. Sola Scriptura means that only the Bible is to be our Guide in all things pertaining to God by Bible, I mean only the 66 books of the OT and NT. The Canon was closed w the death of the Apostle John ie nothing can be added. Again, Whites works demonstrate her denial of Scripture, and she sets her writings on an equal plane which is heretical.
She is no different than Joseph Smith, nor the Watchtower Society. They are all evil
Are her writings on an equal plane as the 66 Books of the Bible? Its a straight forward yes or no IMO.
Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
She did not either, and it is in print (in many places) if you desire to look and read for yourself. For instance:
"... Christ's sacrifice in behalf of man was full and complete. The condition of the atonement had been fulfilled. The work for which He had come to this world had been accomplished. He had won the kingdom. He had wrested it from Satan and had become heir of all things. He was on His way [30] to the throne of God, to be honored by the heavenly host. Clothed with boundless authority, He gave His disciples their commission, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end." Matthew 28:19, 20. {AA 29.2} ..." - Acts Of The Apostles, page 29.2
What you seem to conflate here in this matter, and I suspect unwittingly, as you seem sincere enough, is that there are multiple (ie. differing) atonements found in scripture, for differing matters. For instance, see Leviticus 4 compared to that of Leviticus 16.
Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
Why are you including Matthew through Revelation (27), when the canon of scripture (39) was closed for 400 years from the time of Malachi? Sola Scriptura for Paul was Genesis to Malachi (in our present day understanding, Jewish reckoning would be Genesis to Chronicles).
If Christs atonement is sufficient then why is it necessary to add to Scripture like she has with her writings?
Even OT Jews understood that the Messiah was coming to redeem them ie NT
As far as me personally?, I did not determine the Canon, YHWH determined it
Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
Was Paul a Christian? What was Sola Scriptura for Paul?
Paul was a NT writer, and Apostle. The Canon at that time was the OT; however, God held open the NT for Apostolic Writings - I think you know that, but will assume nothing
Is EWs writings on the same level as Pauls?
She also claimed that not one sin has actually been blotted out yet, that no one has security, that Jesus will no longer be able to mediate for us in the IJ, and that we need to have obeyed and heeded perfected the law to remain saved!
Not biblical Christianity!
Fpr Paul, but he did write the NT inspired books, as did other Apostles, not EW!
The Sda will claim that she is not, as they claim the bible is final authority, and yet turn right around and state that her interpretations in regards to any biblical matter settles it, as she is the final authority in what it really means!
same way Mormons use Joseph Smith to supersede the Bible!
Alofa
If you can convince me that EW was truly a prophetess, I will become SDA. I am only interested in truth
If you can convince me that EW was truly a prophetess, I will become SDA. I am only interested in truth
Actually - in MY conversations with you - you haven't exhibited a SHRED of "knowledge" of the Catholic faith.
ust the same ignorant misconceptions and falsehoods as every other angry anti-Catholic . . .
Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
May these help you understand, even as it was in the OT and the NT times, on why Isaiah was sent, and Jeremiah, and Daniel, and Paul, and so many others, in addition to the Law of God (the Ten Commandments):
You can see much here, on why the Testimonies were given through sister White -
[1] Ellen G. White® Estate: Ellen G. White's Understanding of How Her Writings Relate to Scripture
[2] Ellen G. White® Estate: "The Bible and the Bible Only"
[3] The Position of “The Bible, and the Bible Only” and the Relationship of This to the Writings of Ellen White
[4] Ellen G. White Writings
Why:
"... I took the precious Bible and surrounded it with the several Testimonies for the Church, given for the people of God. Here, said I, the cases of nearly all are met. The sins they are to shun are pointed out. The counsel that they desire can be found here, given for other cases situated similarly to themselves. God has been pleased to give you line upon line and precept upon precept. But there are not many of you that really know what is contained in the Testimonies. You are not familiar with the Scriptures. If you had made God's word your study, with a desire to reach the Bible standard and attain to Christian perfection, you would not have needed the Testimonies. It is because you have neglected to acquaint yourselves with God's inspired Book that He has sought to reach you by simple, direct testimonies, calling your attention to the words of inspiration which you had neglected to obey, and urging you to fashion your lives in accordance with its pure and elevated teachings. {2T 605.1}
The Lord designs to warn you, to reprove, to counsel, through the testimonies given, and to impress your minds with the importance of the truth of His word. The written testimonies are not to give new light, but to impress vividly upon the heart the truths of inspiration already revealed. Man's duty to God and to his fellow man has been distinctly specified in God's word; yet but few of you are obedient to the light given. Additional truth is not brought out; but God has through the Testimonies simplified the great truths already given and in His own chosen way brought them before the people to awaken and impress the mind with them, that all may be left without excuse. {2T 605.2} ..."
The Lord designs to warn you, to reprove, to counsel, through the testimonies given, and to impress your minds with the importance of the truth of His word. The written testimonies are not to give new light, but to impress vividly upon the heart the truths of inspiration already revealed. Man's duty to God and to his fellow man has been distinctly specified in God's word; yet but few of you are obedient to the light given. Additional truth is not brought out; but God has through the Testimonies simplified the great truths already given and in His own chosen way brought them before the people to awaken and impress the mind with them, that all may be left without excuse. {2T 605.2} ..."
Notice:
"... I recommend to you, dear reader, the Word of God as the rule of your faith and practice. By that Word we are to be judged. God has, in that Word, promised to give visions in the "last days"; not for a new rule of faith, but for the comfort of His people, and to correct those who err from Bible truth. Thus God dealt with Peter when He was about to send him to preach to the Gentiles. (Acts 10.) {EW 78.1} ..."
Again:
"... When God's Word is studied, comprehended, and obeyed, a bright light will be reflected to the world; new truths, received and acted upon, will bind us in strong bonds to Jesus. The Bible, and the Bible alone, is to be our creed, the sole bond of union; all who bow to this Holy Word will be in harmony. Our own views and ideas must not control our efforts. Man is fallible, but God's Word is infallible. Instead of wrangling with one another, let men exalt the Lord. Let us meet all opposition as did our Master, saying, “It is written.” Let us lift up the banner on which is inscribed, The Bible our rule of faith and discipline.—The Review and Herald, December 15, 1885.... {1SM 416.2}"
Again:
"... It is not enough to merely profess to believe the truth. All the soldiers of the cross of Christ virtually obligate themselves to enter a crusade against the adversary of souls, to condemn wrong, and sustain righteousness. But the message of the True Witness reveals the fact that a terrible deception is upon our people, which makes it necessary to come to them with warnings, to break their spiritual slumber, and arouse them to decided action. {RH, September 16, 1873 par. 8}
This message of the True Witness has not accomplished the design of God. The people slumber on in their sins. They continue to declare themselves "rich, and having need of nothing." Many inquire, Why are all these reproofs given? Why do the testimonies continually charge us with backsliding and grievous sins? We love the truth. We are prospering. We are in no need of these testimonies of warning and reproof. But let these murmurers see their hearts, and compare their lives with the practical teachings of the Bible; let them humble their souls before God; let the grace of God illuminate the darkness, and the scales will fall from their eyes, and they will sense their true spiritual poverty and wretchedness. They will feel the necessity of buying gold, which is pure faith and love; white raiment, which is a spotless character, made pure in the blood of their dear Redeemer, and eye-salve, which is the grace of God, and will give clear discernment of spiritual things, and detect sin. These attainments are more precious than the gold of Ophir. {RH, September 16, 1873 par. 9}
I am very sure that the greatest reason why the people of God are now found in this state of spiritual blindness, is because they will not receive correction. Many have despised the reproofs and warnings given them. The True Witness condemns the lukewarm condition of the people of God, which gives Satan great power over them in this waiting, watching time. The selfish, and proud, and lovers of sin, are ever assailed with doubts. Satan has ability to suggest doubts and devise objections to the pointed testimony that God sends, and many think it a virtue and mark of intelligence in them to be unbelieving and questioning, and quibbling. Those who desire to doubt will have plenty of room. God does not propose to remove all occasion for unbelief. He gives evidence, which must be carefully investigated with a humble mind and teachable spirit. All should decide from the weight of evidence. {RH, September 16, 1873 par. 10} ..."
This message of the True Witness has not accomplished the design of God. The people slumber on in their sins. They continue to declare themselves "rich, and having need of nothing." Many inquire, Why are all these reproofs given? Why do the testimonies continually charge us with backsliding and grievous sins? We love the truth. We are prospering. We are in no need of these testimonies of warning and reproof. But let these murmurers see their hearts, and compare their lives with the practical teachings of the Bible; let them humble their souls before God; let the grace of God illuminate the darkness, and the scales will fall from their eyes, and they will sense their true spiritual poverty and wretchedness. They will feel the necessity of buying gold, which is pure faith and love; white raiment, which is a spotless character, made pure in the blood of their dear Redeemer, and eye-salve, which is the grace of God, and will give clear discernment of spiritual things, and detect sin. These attainments are more precious than the gold of Ophir. {RH, September 16, 1873 par. 9}
I am very sure that the greatest reason why the people of God are now found in this state of spiritual blindness, is because they will not receive correction. Many have despised the reproofs and warnings given them. The True Witness condemns the lukewarm condition of the people of God, which gives Satan great power over them in this waiting, watching time. The selfish, and proud, and lovers of sin, are ever assailed with doubts. Satan has ability to suggest doubts and devise objections to the pointed testimony that God sends, and many think it a virtue and mark of intelligence in them to be unbelieving and questioning, and quibbling. Those who desire to doubt will have plenty of room. God does not propose to remove all occasion for unbelief. He gives evidence, which must be carefully investigated with a humble mind and teachable spirit. All should decide from the weight of evidence. {RH, September 16, 1873 par. 10} ..."
Another:
"... Why do we need a Matthew, a Mark, a Luke, a John, a Paul, and all these other writers who have borne their testimony in regard to the life of the Saviour during His earthly ministry? Why could not one of the disciples have written a complete record, and thus have given us a connected account of Christ's life and work? The Gospels differ. One writer brings in points that another does not bring in. If these points are essential, why did not all these writers mention them? It is because the minds of men differ, and do not comprehend all things in exactly the same way. Some Scripture truths appeal much more strongly to the minds of certain persons than to others; some points appear to be much more important to some than to others. The same principle applies to speakers. Some speakers dwell at considerable length on points that others would pass by quickly, or not mention at all. Thus the whole truth is presented more clearly by several than by one. In the Gospels the records blend in one harmonious whole. {2SAT 241.3} ..."
Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
May these help you understand, even as it was in the OT and the NT times, on why Isaiah was sent, and Jeremiah, and Daniel, and Paul, and so many others, in addition to the Law of God (the Ten Commandments):
You can see much here, on why the Testimonies were given through sister White -
[1] Ellen G. White® Estate: Ellen G. White's Understanding of How Her Writings Relate to Scripture
[2] Ellen G. White® Estate: "The Bible and the Bible Only"
[3] The Position of “The Bible, and the Bible Only” and the Relationship of This to the Writings of Ellen White
[4] Ellen G. White Writings
Another:
"... God and Satan never work in copartnership. The testimonies either bear the signet of God or that of Satan. A good tree cannot bring forth corrupt fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. By their fruit ye shall know them. {5T 98.2} ..."
Another:
"... The Bible, and the Bible alone has given the true lessons upon purity.{PC 106.3} ..."
Another:
"... The word of God is sufficient to enlighten the most [455] beclouded mind and may be understood by those who have any desire to understand it. But notwithstanding all this, some who profess to make the word of God their study are found living in direct opposition to its plainest teachings. Then, to leave men and women without excuse, God gives plain and pointed testimonies, bringing them back to the word that they have neglected to follow. Yet those who serve their own lusts turn from all this light. They will not cease their course of sin, but continue to take pleasure in unrighteousness in the face of the threatenings and vengeance of God against those who do such things. {2T 454.4} ..."
Another:
"... That the Testimonies were not given to take the place of the Bible, the following extract from a testimony published in 1876 will show: {5T 663.1}
"Brother J would confuse the mind by seeking to make it appear that the light God has given through the Testimonies is an addition to the word of God, but in this he presents the matter in a false light. God has seen fit in this manner to bring the minds of His people to His word, to give them a clearer understanding of it." [VOL. 4, P. 246 (1876).] The word of God is sufficient to enlighten the most beclouded mind and may be understood by those who have any desire to understand it. But notwithstanding all this, some who profess to make the word of God their study are found living in direct opposition to its plainest teachings. Then, to leave men and women without excuse, God gives plain and pointed testimonies, bringing them back to the word that they have neglected to follow." [VOL. 2, P. 455 (1870).] The word of God abounds in general principles for [664] the formation of correct habits of living, and the testimonies, general and personal, have been calculated to call their attention more especially to these principles." [VOL. 4, P. 323 (1879).] {5T 663.2} ..."
"Brother J would confuse the mind by seeking to make it appear that the light God has given through the Testimonies is an addition to the word of God, but in this he presents the matter in a false light. God has seen fit in this manner to bring the minds of His people to His word, to give them a clearer understanding of it." [VOL. 4, P. 246 (1876).] The word of God is sufficient to enlighten the most beclouded mind and may be understood by those who have any desire to understand it. But notwithstanding all this, some who profess to make the word of God their study are found living in direct opposition to its plainest teachings. Then, to leave men and women without excuse, God gives plain and pointed testimonies, bringing them back to the word that they have neglected to follow." [VOL. 2, P. 455 (1870).] The word of God abounds in general principles for [664] the formation of correct habits of living, and the testimonies, general and personal, have been calculated to call their attention more especially to these principles." [VOL. 4, P. 323 (1879).] {5T 663.2} ..."
Here is an helpful index:
"... 10. Object of
given as lesser light to lead men to Bible as greater light Ev 257
given by God to: awaken sinners to their duty 5T 667
benefit God's people 5T 672-3
bring God's people into unity 3T 360-1
bring men and women back to neglected word of God 2T 455; 5T 663
call attention to God's word LS 199; 1SM 46; 2T 605-6; 4T 246, 323; 5T 665
call attention to Scriptures 5T 234, 674
exalt God's word LS 199; 2T 606; 5T 665
fit people to stand in last days 1SM 41-2, 45
give clearer understanding of God's word 4T 246; 5T 663
impress Bible truth upon minds LS 199; 2T 605; 5T 665
impress upon hearts truths already revealed 2T 660-1; 5T 665
instruct concerning His will 5T 661
instruct concerning course to take 5T 661
lead sinners to repent 2T 445
leave God's people without excuse 5T 663
perfect holiness in God's people 2T 452-3; 5T 662
point out defects of character 5T 234, 674
point out sins to be shunned 2T 605; 5T 662, 664-5
rebuke sins 5T 234, 674
safeguard God's people against delusions GW 308; 1SM 31, 48; 8T 298
separate sin from God's people 2T 452-3; 5T 662
separate wrongdoers from God's people 3T 324; 5T 676
show backslider and sinner his true condition 2T 608; 5T 667-8
simplify great truths already given in God's word LS 199; 2T 605; 5T 665
warn, counsel, reprove, comfort, and encourage His people LS 199; 2T 605-6; 5T 665; TM 42
have important part to act in establishment of truth Ev 257
matters in, not given for world at large TM 34
real object of, persons having little spirituality do not understand 5T 672
searching, used by God to separate wrongdoers from church 5T 676 ..."
given by God to: awaken sinners to their duty 5T 667
benefit God's people 5T 672-3
bring God's people into unity 3T 360-1
bring men and women back to neglected word of God 2T 455; 5T 663
call attention to God's word LS 199; 1SM 46; 2T 605-6; 4T 246, 323; 5T 665
call attention to Scriptures 5T 234, 674
exalt God's word LS 199; 2T 606; 5T 665
fit people to stand in last days 1SM 41-2, 45
give clearer understanding of God's word 4T 246; 5T 663
impress Bible truth upon minds LS 199; 2T 605; 5T 665
impress upon hearts truths already revealed 2T 660-1; 5T 665
instruct concerning His will 5T 661
instruct concerning course to take 5T 661
lead sinners to repent 2T 445
leave God's people without excuse 5T 663
perfect holiness in God's people 2T 452-3; 5T 662
point out defects of character 5T 234, 674
point out sins to be shunned 2T 605; 5T 662, 664-5
rebuke sins 5T 234, 674
safeguard God's people against delusions GW 308; 1SM 31, 48; 8T 298
separate sin from God's people 2T 452-3; 5T 662
separate wrongdoers from God's people 3T 324; 5T 676
show backslider and sinner his true condition 2T 608; 5T 667-8
simplify great truths already given in God's word LS 199; 2T 605; 5T 665
warn, counsel, reprove, comfort, and encourage His people LS 199; 2T 605-6; 5T 665; TM 42
have important part to act in establishment of truth Ev 257
matters in, not given for world at large TM 34
real object of, persons having little spirituality do not understand 5T 672
searching, used by God to separate wrongdoers from church 5T 676 ..."
Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
Did you desire to study prophets in scripture first and then we can compare to that which is "modern"?
There have no prophets given by God to His church since Apostolic age ended!
Alofa Atu
Well-Known Member
Calvinist (woe unto you) & Cessationist (the depths of sorrow and sin involved in these two errors) huh? I pity such a feeble and pathetic church as you imagine Jesus has on this earth ~ no gifts, no comfort, and a powerless Holy Ghost that bestows nothing to anyone.
Yet, please notice the first portion of my question, "Did you desire to study prophets in scripture first ..."
The offer for that is still open, even if you are closed to the second.