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Do the Wicked Perish

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Dr. Weymouth, head master of Mill Hill School, and one of the finest Greek scholars, says, "My mind fails to conceive a grosser misinterpretation of language than when the five or six strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying 'destroy,' or 'destruction,' are explained to mean maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence. To translate black as white is nothing to this."
As I see it, Dr. Weymouth didn't appear to believe God's words, either.

To me, his mind failed to conceive of a God who requires eternal conscious torment and suffering for rebellious sinners who hate God and refuse to repent of their gross disobedience.
A gross disobedience that we love to commit ( Romans 1:32, John 3:19-20, Ephesians 4:17-19 ), were it not for God's grace to us as sinners ( Ephesians 2:1-10 ).
I reason that he must have missed Revelation 14, Revelation 19 and Revelation 20 in his reading, much more the belief of what is contained in that reading.


Hobie, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God ( Luke 4:4 ).
They are all equally important, and all to be believed.
So, I strongly urge you to believe the words for the words' sake, and because they are God's words.
Otherwise, what do we stand on as sinners saved by grace?


Certainly not on anything less than every blessed word.;)
 
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Hobie

Well-Known Member
They do not cease to exist Hobie.

I agree, let us go to the text.

The Bible states that the Lake of Fire is an unquenchable fire that deals eternal torment.
It does not teach annihilationism for the wicked / unaved.
So lets go look for Sodom and see what we find, hmmm, not anything left. Come now, lets open our eyes and ears and see what scripture shows us, the wicked perish, sin ends, they are consumed and are no more. Its that simple..
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
Lets go to the text:

Mark 9:43-48 King James Version (KJV)
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Christ repeats the warning, "worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" against the wicked. The word here used for hell is gehenna, a word used to designate the valley of Hinnom, near Jerusalem. The use of this word throws light on the passage that Christ uses as it called to the minds of his hearers was that of complete and utter destruction that ended only when it was done. The Jews were familiar with the language and words used as Isaiah and Jeremiah frequently used them:

Jeremiah 17:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.

We read in Jeremiah 17:27, how God said that he would kindle a fire in the gates of Jerusalem which should not be quenched. We look at the fulfillement:

2 Chronicles 36:19-21 King James Version (KJV)
19 And they burnt the house of God, and brake down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all the palaces thereof with fire, and destroyed all the goodly vessels thereof.
20 And them that had escaped from the sword carried he away to Babylon; where they were servants to him and his sons until the reign of the kingdom of Persia:
21 To fulfil the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.

2 Chronicles 36:19-21 records the fulfillment of this unquenchable fire. It was simply a fire which burned until it had entirely consumed the gates and palaces of Jerusalem.

We see in Isaiah this text:
Isaiah 1:28-31 King James Version (KJV)
28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the Lord shall be consumed.
29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen.
30 For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water.
31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.

Again a fire that cannot be quenched or eternal fire, but notice the word 'comsumed' describing the 'destruction' of the 'transgressors' and 'sinners'. The fact is that eternal fire does not mean a fire that will never go out as we find same expression is used in Jude concerning the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha:

Jude 7 King James Version (KJV)
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom and Gomorrha are not still burning today, yet they burned with "eternal fire," and we see it was "set forth for an example" which we find in this text:

2 Peter 2:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

The fire in which the "worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" and the fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha will also burn the wicked in the lake of fire. This is a eternal fire as like Sodom and Gomorrha they will be consumed, no more as it will burn the wicked to ashes.


Thank you for a thoughtful reply ,Hobie.

Even our God is a consuming fire!
Deuteronomy 4:24 & Hebrews 12:29
And baptized with the Holy Ghost and fire! Matthew 3:11

Certainly consume and devour and smoke leaves very little if anything at all.

I wonder in the long/short run what the difference is if one has to experience it.
PAIN.

What about these:

Isaiah 65:5 ..."I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose,
a fire that burneth all the day."

Isaiah 66:24 "... for their worm shall not die,
neither shall their fire be quenched;..."

Matthew 3:12 "Whose fan is in his hand,
and he will throughly purge his floor,
and gather his wheat into the garner;
but he will burn up the chaff
with unquenchable fire."

Matthew 18:8 "... to be cast into everlasting fire."

Jude 7 (text shown) "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner,
giving themselves over to fornication,
and going after strange flesh,

are set forth for an example,

suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

How do you explain unquenchable and eternal?
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
So lets go look for Sodom and see what we find, hmmm, not anything left.
So lets look at God's word, shall we?
We did, and I quoted several passages in Revelation.

What does it say?
I showed you, Hobie...

" and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."

Those that will receive the mark of the "beast" and who will worship his image have been made a very terrible promise by the Lord:

The smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever.
They will have no rest day or night.
They will not be annihilated, will they?

If they were to be annihilated, then their torment would not ascend up forever and ever, nor would they be said to have no rest day or night.
The Bible would very clearly say that they are not tormented, and they are at rest.
Wouldn't it?

But it doesn't.
It says the opposite. :Sneaky

Come now, lets open our eyes and ears and see what scripture shows us, the wicked perish, sin ends, they are consumed and are no more. Its that simple..
What Scripture shows us is different than what you're showing us, Hobie.
It's not "that simple".

Is there a specific reason that you disagree with God's words?
Do they not clearly say what they say?
 
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Hobie

Well-Known Member
Perish is the correct word, and since God has the power bring back even the dead, He makes it a eternal death where life ceases to exists for eternity.

per·ish
/ˈperiSH/

verb
verb: perish; 3rd person present: perishes; past tense: perished; past participle: perished; gerund or present participle: perishing
  1. suffer death, typically in a violent, sudden, or untimely way.
    "a great part of his army perished of hunger and disease"
    h
    Similar:
    die

    lose one's life

    be killed
    fall

    expire

    meet one's death
    be lost
    lay down one's life

    breathe one's last

    draw one's last breath
    pass away

    go the way of all flesh

    give up the ghost

    go to glory

    meet one's maker

    go to one's last resting place
    cross the great divide
    bite the dust

    kick the bucket

    cash in one's chips

    croak

    flatline

    turn up one's toes
    shuffle off this mortal coil

    go the way of the dinosaurs
    conk out
    buy it

    snuff it
    peg out

    pop one's clogs
    hop the twig/stick
    bite the big one

    buy the farm

    check out

    hand in one's dinner pail

    go bung

    exit

    decease

    depart this life
    • suffer complete ruin or destruction.
      "the old regime had to perish"
 
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