Do We All have the same Kind Of Free Will as adam Had From God?

[Christos doulos]

Explain what you mean by God intervening.

My friend. The bible is clear that man is born in sin- hating God, unless God steps in and changes the person, then he or she will go on hating Him.

How does a person love God if they hate Him? How do they choose the righteousness of God if they are unable to, because they are unwilling to.

This is in every single human being who ever was born in sin. What is in them that repulses them?

 

[freeatlast]

My friend. The bible is clear that man is born in sin- hating God, unless God steps in and changes the person, then he or she will go on hating Him.

How does a person love God if they hate Him? How do they choose the righteousness of God if they are unable to, because they are unwilling to.

This is in every single human being who ever was born in sin. What is in them that repulses them?

[SIZE=+0]Thank you for the explanation. I do not believe that God changes us so that we believe as you seem to suggest. In fact you are doing a lot of guessing on that. You are assuming that the lost have no ability to choose to turn to God and He picks certain ones who can believe. I believe He has given everyone the ability because of all being called.

What I believe is that the bible teaches that He calls every man (many are called, but few are chosen). The many is everyone ever born and the few are those who accept His call. I believe that call is a natural need in every person that they need God in their life. I believe it is an emptiness we live with without Him from birth to death unless we choose to surrender to Him. Man can either act on it or continually harden their hearts (free will).

They can come to faith through that call if they hear the word of God, faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God. They can exercise free will to turn to Him or not. No person is forced to repent, but even in the mist of our rebellion I believe that we still maintain the need for God unless we sin the sin of the blasphemy of the Spirit. Repentance is a personal free will choice we all are faced with. Adam acted on free will and we act on free will.

I do agree that there is a battle within and from without for the souls of men. So I believe that God has given all men the ability to choose to come to Him from free will. If hear the word of God any person can make the choice to come to repent. Those who come will be those who are the elect. Those who do not will be the condemned and both choose because of the Sovereignty of God and the free will of man working together to save some. Adam chose to sin from free will and we also choose to sin or not because of free will.
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[Iconoclast]

Calvinism claims the lost have total spiritual inability, like the first soil in Matthew 13. The first soil was unable to understand the gospel. But the other three understood the gospel and responded affirmatively. One soil received the gospel with joy.

Now in response, they say I do not understand the parable, but do not indicate how someone without the ability to seek God and trust in Christ could receive the gospel with joy.

What the Bible teaches is limited spiritual ability of the fallen. They can understand and respond to the milk of the gospel, unless they have been hardened by the practice of sin,i.e. the first soil of Matthew 13, or by the intervention of God, as in Romans 11.

But the other three understood the gospel and responded affirmatively. One soil received the gospel with joy.

Did the three by their response get saved?

Did they save themselves?

If you believe God saved them.....did He lose them also? So they had limited salvation to go along with limited spiritual ability...I see.......

 

[MB]

You are wrong about the context. Paul is including ALL men not just a select few, not just the Jews and not just the Gentiles - but he most definitely states in the Romans writing that ALL are in the condition. There is no singling out of one person or one group but Paul includes all people - Jews and Gentiles - the whole of humanity.


Look here at what Paul said:


"What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
​

Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Destruction and misery are in their ways:
And the way of peace have they not known:
There is no fear of God before their eyes. "
​

This still does not show an inability for man to respond to the gospel. Men are sinful and they do not seek God on their own. It doesn't say they can't seek God once they are drawn and hear the gospel.
Calvinist have showed this passage and made the claim that man has been disabled to keep him from responding.
MB

 

[Christos doulos]

Calvinist have showed this passage and made the claim that man has been disabled to keep him from responding.
MB

No my friend. Man IS able to respond. Men have the physical ability to walk to the church, they have the ability to hear the gospel, they have the ability to sing God's praises in song, but they do not have the spiritual ability. They are spiritually dead because of sin.

Dead is dead. Dead can't do anything.

 

[convicted1]

This still does not show an inability for man to respond to the gospel. Men are sinful and they do not seek God on their own. It doesn't say they can't seek God once they are drawn and hear the gospel.
Calvinist have showed this passage and made the claim that man has been disabled to keep him from responding.
MB

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[convicted1]

No my friend. Man IS able to respond. Men have the physical ability to walk to the church, they have the ability to hear the gospel, they have the ability to sing God's praises in song, but they do not have the spiritual ability. They are spiritually dead because of sin.

Dead is dead. Dead can't do anything.

If they are dead spiritually, the same way a corpse is, then they are "flat-lined" entirely. The soul is never dead once God creates it. Even the rich man in hell had his faculties/senses. He could taste(wanted one drop of water), could hear and talk(communicated with Abraham), and he felt the pains of the flames. He wasn't lifeless like a corpse, but was seperated from God. This is what spiritual death is.

 

[MB]

No my friend. Man IS able to respond. Men have the physical ability to walk to the church, they have the ability to hear the gospel, they have the ability to sing God's praises in song, but they do not have the spiritual ability. They are spiritually dead because of sin.

Dead is dead. Dead can't do anything.

So you say. Where does scripture say that man cannot understand the gospel. It doesn't that's just your opinion and it isn't any better than anyone else's.
MB

 

[Christos doulos]

So you say. Where does scripture say that man cannot understand the gospel. It doesn't that's just your opinion and it isn't any better than anyone else's.
MB

My friend. I am not trying to start a scriptural war, but I don't make things up.

(1 Corinthians 2:14)
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[agedman]

So you say. Where does scripture say that man cannot understand the gospel. It doesn't that's just your opinion and it isn't any better than anyone else's.
MB

Where does the scriptures say that man cannot understand???????


Did you not understand the passage posted earlier.

Paul states most clearly that there is NONE of the unsaved that understand!!!!!

This isn't an opinion, it is the Scriptures.

Prove that Paul was mistaken and just making an opinion.

Please, show where in that same passage there is ANY ability of the unsaved mentioned.

 

[MB]

My friend. I am not trying to start a scriptural war, but I don't make things up.

(1 Corinthians 2:14)
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

No war my friend. Just truth.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
It is the deep things of God being spoken of here.
My goodness there are born again Christians who still don't understand the deep things of God.
The gospel was written so any man can understand.
MB

 

[agedman]

No war my friend. Just truth.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
It is the deep things of God being spoken of here.
My goodness there are born again Christians who still don't understand the deep things of God.
The gospel was written so any man can understand.
MB

Please, show me scriptures that validate your statement, "The Gospel was written so any man can understand."

I haven't seen that in the Scriptures, anywhere. Rather, I see in each case that understanding is ONLY attainable when it is GIVEN by God.

For instance:

Psalms 119:144 The righteousness of thy testimonies is everlasting: give me understanding, and I shall live.
Psalms 119:169 TAU. Let my cry come near before thee, O LORD: give me understanding according to thy word.
Pr 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom: out of his mouth comes knowledge and understanding.

I didn't post these verses with context; I only submit to you validation of the fact that ALL understanding is given by God. One cannot know, understand, come ... to God without FIRST being given that ability by God.

A great indication of how man does not have the innate ability to understand is Phillip and the Eunuch. "How can I (understand) ..."

 

[JesusFan]

If you mean sinless from birth some have. If you mean sinless from the time of their salvation some have. However most do not want to do what it takes to live that way.

here is what the Apostle John, inspired by God, thought on this topic!
This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

 

[JesusFan]

I agree that Jesus had no sin anture. Neither do we .Sin nature is man's teaching not the bible. The scripture says he was tempted in all manner of things even as we yet without sin. He chose to not sin just like we can choose not to sin. Adam had free will and so do we.

ALL of us have sin natures, as ONLY Adam when created, and Jesus were w/o one!

here is what the Apostle John, inspired by God, thought on this topic!
This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

 

[freeatlast]

ALL of us have sin natures, as ONLY Adam when created, and Jesus were w/o one!

here is what the Apostle John, inspired by God, thought on this topic!
This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Great passages, but they do not say we have a sin nature. Adam sinned from free will and we sin from free will.

 

[Van]

I see the Calvinists continue to post absurdity with no scriptural support. We are dead in our sin, but Calvinism then adds to scripture by defining being spiritually dead as being unable to respond to the gospel. Never mind three of the four soils understood and responded.

Or they change the subject and insert straw man arguements like "limited salvation." They deflect because they know their doctrine is unbiblical.

Lets take a few of the fictions they tell over and over. The lost are born hating God and so would never seek God or trust in Jesus. But Matthew 13 says some of the lost received the gospel with joy. So will they stop repeating the fiction? Nope.

Next they post up 1 Corinthians 2:14 and then read into it that it says "does not accept [all] the things of the Spirit of God." But the verse actually reads "does not accept the things of the Spirit of God" and leaves to the context whether all or some spiritual things are in view. The actual idea is that before a person is regenerated and indwelt with the Helper, they cannot accept the spiritual things learned with the aid of the Spirit for it is impossible because they are not indwelt. But just a few verses later, 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 we see that natural men of flesh can understand the milk of the gospel. But will that stop them from posting 1 Corinthians 2:14 over and over? Nope

 

[MB]

Please, show me scriptures that validate your statement, "The Gospel was written so any man can understand."

I haven't seen that in the Scriptures, anywhere. Rather, I see in each case that understanding is ONLY attainable when it is GIVEN by God.

Then you have refused to consider that God has already given this understanding to all men. It's called the Bible.
Christ spoke in parables to keep men from understanding on purpose that prophecy would be fulfilled. Yet we have the explanations of those Parables given to the disciples who in turn gave them to us in the New Testiment.
This is what Paul said about it;
Act 28:24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Act 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

That Salvation was sent to us in the form of the New Testament. I call it the Word of God. It was explained by the disciples so that the Gentiles could understand it. So understanding has already been given to every mothers son. Of course I know you'll try and suppress this as well but the truth shines through every single time.
MB

 

[Amy.G]

Please, show me scriptures that validate your statement, "The Gospel was written so any man can understand."

I haven't seen that in the Scriptures, anywhere. Rather, I see in each case that understanding is ONLY attainable when it is GIVEN by God.

For instance:

Psalms 119:144 The righteousness of thy testimonies is everlasting: give me understanding, and I shall live.
Psalms 119:169 TAU. Let my cry come near before thee, O LORD: give me understanding according to thy word.
Pr 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom: out of his mouth comes knowledge and understanding.

I didn't post these verses with context; I only submit to you validation of the fact that ALL understanding is given by God. One cannot know, understand, come ... to God without FIRST being given that ability by God.

A great indication of how man does not have the innate ability to understand is Phillip and the Eunuch. "How can I (understand) ..."

I agree that unsaved man cannot understand the scriptures, but I do believe that man can understand he is a sinner in need of a savior. The gospel was meant for all men.

 

[Skandelon]

I agree that unsaved man cannot understand the scriptures, but I do believe that man can understand he is a sinner in need of a savior. The gospel was meant for all men.

I don't think the bible is teaching that lost people can't understand the scriptures, I think it teaches that without God's work in discerning these the mysterious truths by inspiring the writing of scripture no one could understand it.

In other words, the mysteries would not be known if not for the work of the Spirit in inspiring the words of scriptures. That is the means God has chosen to reveal his truth to all mankind. Believers and unbelievers alike walk away with different interpretations of the text, but we can't blame that on the Spirit. He got it right when He inspired its writing.

 

[Amy.G]

I don't think the bible is teaching that lost people can't understand the scriptures, I think it teaches that without God's work in discerning these the mysterious truths by inspiring the writing of scripture no one could understand it.

In other words, the mysteries would not be known if not for the work of the Spirit in inspiring the words of scriptures. That is the means God has chosen to reveal his truth to all mankind. Believers and unbelievers alike walk away with different interpretations of the text, but we can't blame that on the Spirit. He got it right when He inspired its writing.

1 Cor 2 (HCSB)
13 We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people. 14 But the unbeliever does not welcome what comes from God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually. 15 The spiritual person, however, can evaluate everything, yet he himself cannot be evaluated by anyone.


Unbelievers don't "get it" because they are not born of the Spirit.