Do we have free will to choose to believe and follow God?

[3rdAngel]

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (KJV 1900)

Indeed, it comes by believing and following God's Word *ROMANS 10:17. The Word comes first and we choose to believe it or not believe it. When we choose to believe God's Spirit does the rest.

 

[1689Dave]

Indeed, it comes by believing and following God's Word *ROMANS 10:17. The Word comes first and we choose to believe it or not believe it. When we choose to believe God's Spirit does the rest.

You don't believe if you must choose to believe.

 

[3rdAngel]

You have 3 choices.

1) God alone saves people. = God gets all the glory.

2) People save themselves with God's help. = you get the glory and split the rest with God.

3) People save themselves. = you get all the glory.

Only one is true. And the other 2 present a false gospel and a false Christ.

God's Word teaches that salvation is through God alone and as the scriptures in the OP show he never forces us to believe and follow His Word *JOHN 3:15-21.

 

[3rdAngel]

You don't believe if you must choose to believe.

That is not true Dave. God's Word says that we choose to believe or not believe *JOHN 3:15-21; PHILEMON 1:14; 1 CORINTHIANS 7:37; DEUTERONOMY 30:19; JOSHUA 24:14-15

ALL the above scripture tranlsations translate free will in the following context...

Free will is without necessity
Free will is without compulsion
Free will is without force
Free will is a will not pressured
Free will is from one own heart
Free will is a voluntary
Free will is of your own accord
Free will is without constraint

Not looking so good for those who believe in robots.

 

[1689Dave]

That is not true Dave. God's Word says that we choose to believe or not believe *JOHN 3:15-21; PHILEMON 1:14; 1 CORINTHIANS 7:37; DEUTERONOMY 30:19; JOSHUA 24:14-15

ALL the above scripture tranlsations translate free will in the following context...

Free will is without necessity
Free will is without compulsion
Free will is without force
Free will is a will not pressured
Free will is from one own heart
Free will is a voluntary
Free will is of your own accord
Free will is without constraint

Not looking so good for those who believe in robots.

You are turning the gospel of grace into Law. If God saves a person, they experience Christ in their heart and cannot help but believe.

 

[1689Dave]

God's Word teaches that salvation is through God alone and as the scriptures in the OP show he never forces us to believe and follow His Word *JOHN 3:15-21.

He didn't force Lazarus to leave the tomb either. If he saves you you believe because you cannot doubt. It's a real experience that makes believers out of us.

 

[Benjamin]

We no longer have that real free will Adam had before the Fall!

Are you suggesting that God re-created man and his attribute during the fall to not have free will? Didn't get it right the first time, and had a do-over?

We believe in Him due to God Himself drawing us to Jesus, and enabling us to believe!

 

[Benjamin]

You have 3 choices.

1) God alone saves people. = God gets all the glory.

2) People save themselves with God's help. = you get the glory and split the rest with God.

3) People save themselves. = you get all the glory.

4) God influences, we respond. = God gets all the glory.

Only one is true. And the other 2 present a false gospel and a false Christ.

False dilemma fallacy.

 

[3rdAngel]

You are turning the gospel of grace into Law. If God saves a person, they experience Christ in their heart and cannot help but believe.

Rubbish! Your just repeating yourself without addressing the scriptures shared with you. We are saved from sin as we believe God's Word. This is God's Work in us as we believe His Word *JOHN 3:15-21. We are saved from sin not to continue to sin. If you are still in your sins you will die *ROMANS 8:13 because the wages of sin is death in all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

We are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

The fire is the place for all those who do not believe and follow God's Word.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word). Those who do not are not God's Sheep.

 

[3rdAngel]

He didn't force Lazarus to leave the tomb either. If he saves you you believe because you cannot doubt. It's a real experience that makes believers out of us.

Lazarus was dead but he already believed in JESUS before he died. Those who believe and follow God's Word will never die and JESUS will raise him up at the last day *JOHN 6:40. Best to choose to believe and follow GOd's Word and not to believe in robots.

 

[Alan Gross]

Do we have free will to choose to believe and follow God?

Hi all some interesting scriptures shared from a good brother.

SOME INTERESTING SCRIPTURES ON FREE WILL

PHILEMON 1:14 (different translations)

(ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, BUT ONE OF FREE WILL.

(ASV) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(FAA) but I did not want to do anything without your opinion, so that your good deed would not be as it were under compulsion, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(GDBY_NT) but without your consent I did not wish to do anything; in order that your good might not be by constraint, BUT BY THE FREE WILL

(GW) Yet, I didn't want to do anything without your consent. I want you to do this favor for me OUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL WITHOUT FEELING FORCED TO DO IT

(csb) But I didn't want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL

(LEB) But apart from your consent, I wanted to do nothing, in order that your good deed might be not as according to necessity, but ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN FREE WILL

(MRC) but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness might not be by necessity, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(MNT) But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL AND NOT OF COMPULSION.

(NTVR) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(NWT) But without your consent I do not want to do anything, so that your good act may be, not as under compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(Revised Standard ) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(RNT) but without your consent I am unwilling to do anything, so that your goodness may not be of necessity BUT OF FREE WILL.

(RSV-CE) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(TLV) But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness wouldn’t be by force BUT OF FREE WILL.

(WEB) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(WEB (R)) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(Wuest's) Georgia;;14-16 But I came to a decision in my heart to do nothing without your consent, in order that your goodness might not be as it were by compulsion BUT OF FREE WILL. For perhaps on this account he was parted for a brief time in order that you might be possessing him fully and forever, no longer in the capacity of a slave, but above a slave, a brother , a beloved one, beloved most of all by me, how much more than that by you, both in his human relationship and in the Lord.

(NASB77) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(NASB95)14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(TEV)14 However, I do not want to force you to help me; rather, I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO DO IT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL. So I will not do anything unless you agree.

(ERV) 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(NHEB) 14 But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(TCE) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

and you can add both the NEB and the REB

CT 14but I would not do any thing without thy consent, that the benefit derived from thee might not be as it were forced, BUT OF FREE WILL.

NENT 14but without thy: mind I wished to do nothing; that thy: goodness be not as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

SLT 14 But without thy judgment I would do nothing; that good might not be as according to necessity, BUT ACCORDING TO FREE WILL..

(NEB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(REB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

............

ALL the above scripture tranlsations translate free will in the following context...

Free will we see is not a matter of necessity
Free will is a will not under compulsion
Free will is consensual
Free will is a will not forced

............

From alternate translations

Philemon 1:14 (ESV) 14 but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own accord.

Philemon 1:14 (KJV) 14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.

Philemon 1:14 (NET1) 14 However,[33] without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your good deed would not be out of compulsion, but from your own willingness.

Philemon 1:14 (NIV2011) 14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do would not seem forced but would be voluntary.

Philemon 1:14 (NJB) 14 However, I did not want to do anything without your consent; it would have been forcing your act of kindness, which should be spontaneous.

Philemon 1:14 (NRSV) 14 but I preferred to do nothing without your consent, in order that your good deed might be voluntary and not something forced.

Philemon 1:14 (BBE) 14 But without your approval I would do nothing; so that your good works might not be forced, but done freely from your heart.

Philemon 1:14 (MontgomeryNT) 14 But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be of your own free will, and not of compulsion.

Philemon 1:14 (CEB) 14 However, I didn't want to do anything without your consent so that your act of kindness would occur willingly and not under pressure.

Philemon 1:14 (CEV) 14 But I won't do anything unless you agree to it first. I want your act of kindness to come from your heart, and not be something you feel forced to do.

............

ALL the above scripture tranlsations translate free will in the following context...

Free will is without necessity
Free will is without compulsion
Free will is without force
Free will is a will not pressured
Free will is from one own heart
Free will is a voluntary
Free will is of your own accord
Free will is without constraint

And one last verse not Phm 1:14

1 Corinthians 7:37 (KJV) 37 Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.

Free will has no necessity and is under ones own power


Deuteronomy 30:19 KJB - I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

JOSHUA 24:14-15 [14], Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve you the LORD. [15], And if it seem evil to you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom you will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Not looking so good for those who believe in robots.

.............

QUESTIONS:

1. How do you see free will?

God bless.

Water is free to flow uphill.

Lost man has no concept or capacity other than to 'not Come to Me', Jesus Said.

"ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." John 5:40.

 

[3rdAngel]

Water is free to flow uphill.

Lost man has no concept or capacity other than to 'not Come to Me', Jesus Said.

"ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." John 5:40.

We come to JESUS by believing His Word. JESUS is the Word of God *JOHN 1:1-4; 14. We are free to believe or not believe Gods' Word *JOHN 3:15-21.

 

[Benjamin]

Your post makes no sense and has no truth in it. "Once Saved Always Savaed" is a false Gospel and one that is not biblical...

I came to the Lord in search of guidance for my life and love for His truths rather than fear. It was after that experience when my relationship began with Him, just as He promised in His Word that it would, (Matthew 7:7-8) that I felt unworthy to be child of God, guilt for my imperfections, sorrow and fear began to set in. Now that I knew Him there was no turning back, no denying all my short comings and no way that I would ever be able to hold up my shameful head up in His presence. I felt like I had become enslaved to my every thought which was unworthy of His love and now that I knew Him there was absolutely no going back. My fear began to grow to the point of being unbearable and I prayed in anguish about my unworthiness. It was then that God once again demonstrated that He heard my cries and answered in His great love to give me peace. He wrote these Words upon my heart:

(Rom 8:15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

It was then that I realized my enslavement was to my loving Father and that I would always be His son and even though my conscience would tear me up inside at times that I would love Him for His guidance in my life and He would always love me. My fear was that of a son toward his loving Father, a Father who would never forsake His child. His Words of warning about one losing his faith strengthen me because my fear of ever denying Him would be a most sorrowful lie to which I know I would have to answer to Him and that my friend is why I know I will always be saved! Though I believe the possibility of falling away exists and is true, those very Words keep me from ever doing so.

Kind of like if my earthly father told me not to stick my hand in the fire because I will get burnt, I know it is true and he told me this because he loves me. Therefore, those words were meant to keep it from happening.

Therefore, not you or any man (teacher) will ever convince me that I can lose my salvation. My faith in my Father will never be shaken by ANY man!

(Joh 10:28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
(Joh 10:29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

 

[Alan Gross]

God's Word teaches that salvation is through God alone and as the scriptures in the OP show he never forces us to believe and follow His Word *JOHN 3:15-21.

'whosoever believes"

Who is that?

Anybody?

It Says, "whosoever believeth".

 

[3rdAngel]

'whosoever believes"

Who is that?

Anybody?

It Says, "whosoever believeth".

Whoever believe is just that. Anybody can believe. Many called but few are chosen because men loved darkness rather then light because their deeds were evil.

 

[3rdAngel]

I came to the Lord in search of guidance for my life and love for His truths rather than fear. It was after that experience when my relationship began with Him, just as He promised in His Word that it would, (Matthew 7:7-8) that I felt unworthy to be child of God, guilt for my imperfections, sorrow and fear began to set in. Now that I knew Him there was no turning back, no denying all my short comings and no way that I would ever be able to hold up my shameful head up in His presence. I felt like I had become enslaved to my every thought which was unworthy of His love and now that I knew Him there was absolutely no going back. My fear began to grow to the point of being unbearable and I prayed in anguish about my unworthiness. It was then that God once again demonstrated that He heard my cries and answered in His great love to give me peace. He wrote these Words upon my heart:

(Rom 8:15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

It was then that I realized my enslavement was to my loving Father and that I would always be His son and even though my conscience would tear me up inside at times that I would love Him for His guidance in my life and He would always love me. My fear was that of a son toward his loving Father, a Father who would never forsake His child. His Words of warning about one losing his faith strengthen me because my fear of ever denying Him would be a most sorrowful lie to which I know I would have to answer to Him and that my friend is why I know I will always be saved! Though I believe the possibility of falling away exists and is true, those very Words keep me from ever doing so.

Kind of like if my earthly father told me not to stick my hand in the fire because I will get burnt, I know it is true and he told me this because he loves me. Therefore, those words were meant to keep it from happening.

Therefore, not you or any man (teacher) will ever convince me that I can lose my salvation. My faith in my Father will never be shaken by ANY man!

(Joh 10:28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
(Joh 10:29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

God never leaves us or forsakes us *HEBREWS 13:5 and is not willing that any should perish *2 PETER 3:9. We however are free to believe or not to believe and follow His Word *JOHN 3:15-21. God never forces us to believe and follow His Word and it is us that leaves and forsakes God by not believing and following God's Word *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-38; 2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-12. God's Sheep (believers) hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him and it is to those who believe His Word that no one plucks out of His hand and to those who believe and follow His Word that he gives everlasting life *JOHN 10:26-28.

God bless

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes even our faith comes from God through His Word *ROMANS 10:17. Thank you for agreeing with me.

Actually, God grants us saving faith before we hear the Gospel!

 

[Yeshua1]

Are you suggesting that God re-created man and his attribute during the fall to not have free will? Didn't get it right the first time, and had a do-over?

No, rather that God created Adam with free will and gave him the choice to obey God or not, and since the Fall, none save Jesus have had it!

 

[Benjamin]

God never leaves us or forsakes us *HEBREWS 13:5 and is not willing that any should perish *2 PETER 3:9. We however are free to believe or not to believe and follow His Word *JOHN 3:15-21. God never forces us to believe and follow His Word and it is us that leaves and forsakes God by not believing and following God's Word *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-38; 2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-12. God's Sheep (believers) hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him and it is to those who believe His Word that no one plucks out of His hand and to those who believe and follow His Word that he gives everlasting life *JOHN 10:26-28.

God bless

I would somewhat agree with that, except, for a major issue you seem to overlook, which is that once one dies to himself and is born again and becomes a child of God their All Powerful, Wise and Loving Father is NOT going to allow His child to become lost. This does not deny their free will to fall away but rather sets the condition that as an adopted child of God His providential control in your life is more than enough to keep His child’s faith within the free choices that they have.

(Joh 8:36) If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

I’m not sure what your draw is in attempting to teach believers that they can lose their salvation but in doing so, as I have told you, you have missed a very important part of the Gospel of God’s grace being free with your backtracking measuring stick interpretations and must overlook the meaning of being a child within the Loving Power of God to keep those born again to Him.

He doesn’t force His children because He doesn’t have to, regardless of their human volitional abilities, once they become a child of God the influence of their father’s loving grace is sufficient for that child’s continued free response of faith.

But, I’ll be waiting for you to show me how those saints I listed for you, who were not “following” God’s commandments not to sin, those children who were exposed as continuing in sin, …like you

, ...were not saved. I won’t hold my breath for you to do so.

 

[Benjamin]

No, rather that God created Adam with free will and gave him the choice to obey God or not, and since the Fall, none save Jesus have had it!

I'm afraid you'll you have to show me where in the Bible God re-designed His creature's attributes after Adam so that they no longer had human volition.