Do We Have Free-Will?

[Miss E]

@MB made the point perfectly clear in their one post:

Christ intended to save all who believe in Him. Dying for the whole world gives everyone the opportunity to be saved It's mans choice to believe or not. Many choose not to.

Christ died for ALL and only a FEW choose to ACCEPT HIM. What does that glorious scripture say?

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

 

[Van]

Each point in TULIP can be found and supported in the scriptures!

Yet another utterly false assertion with no support from scripture. Only the P (eternal security) has actual support in scripture.
The lost were entering the kingdom, Matthew 23:13, thus the T is unbiblical.
The Thessalonians were chosen through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, thus the U is unbiblical
Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, thus the L is unbiblical.
The men of Matthew 23:13 were prevented from entering, thus the I of the TULIP is unbiblical.

 

[timtofly]

Ἐγένετο ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος Ἀδὰμ εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν ὁ ἔσχατος Ἀδὰμ εἰς πνεῦμα ζῳοποιοῦν 1 Cor 15:45

Does first and last mean first and last, Adam?

but the death did reign from Adam till Moses, even upon those not having sinned in the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a type of him who is coming. Rom 5:14
and him who was made some little less than messengers we see -- Jesus -- because of the suffering of the death, with glory and honour having been crowned, that by the grace of God for every one he might taste of death. Heb 2:9

The first Adam brought, the death, in order for the last Adam to be able to suffer, the death, that through, the death, being made alive out of death, the devil and his works could be destroyed.

Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through (the) death he might destroy him having the power of (the) death -- that is, the devil -- Heb 2:14
he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth sin; for this was the Son of God manifested, (as the last Adam, the son of Man} that he may break up the works of the devil; 1 John 3:8

the Son of God manifested, that he may break up the works of the devil; ='s the hope of Romans 8:20 --- for to vanity was the creation made subject -- not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it -- in hope,

The first Adam was never of his free will going to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and not bring, the death, to man.

I have a question for those who under Greek and the grammar thereof.

Does the definite article preceding death not imply that death was an entity even before the first Adam brought it to man?
Even to the understanding of, the death, having effected something prior to it being brought to man?

How was Adam to understand or have of a concept of what, מוֹת תָּמוּת - dying thou dost die, as being?

Destroying Satan was the side effect that Satan has not quite wrapped his limited mind around.

Adam did not have to know anything about death. Satan did not even know anything about death. Satan is a liar, and a gambler, but not omniscient. Adam was not a gambler, nor did he really think things out thoroughly sometimes. It only took one time to disobey, and that is what Satan was betting on.

If Adam hedged his chances, he could have told Eve to not touch it. Adam would have had no reason why touching it mattered, but perhaps touching it could lead to other things? Of course telling Eve to not eat, or touch, gave Eve two options instead of just one. It doubled her chances to learn something she did not know. Satan just gave Eve more options, going in the direction away from death, to hedge his gamble.


When it comes to first and last Adam, are you looking at it from God’s perspective or human perspective? The Garden Adam cannot destroy Satan. If the first Adam destroys Satan, because that was God's Will, then only Jesus Christ as God can do that. At least that is what I understood your point to be. Adam did not sin. Adam disobeyed God, before there was sin. That is why Adam's given command was different from those given to Moses. God allowed Satan to be a willful sinner. Satan cannot be of a different will on his own. That is why Satan is the Adversary of Adam and his descendants. Adam had free will, as all of his descendants do. Stating any other scenario, goes against the single purpose of all of creation. God in the Bible has given us the different outcomes, of our choices as it relates to free will. Reformed theology just adds the false burden, that sin and death is the only option, and free will can not be a factor in changing that option. Humans are born totally depraved, there is no half ability of depravity. The only moral compass would be God putting such knowledge into our minds. Morality in total depravity cannot even be taught, other than to just break laws naturally. Since morality has not been mentioned, what people believe here may range in opinions. That The Holy Spirit seals all at conception, would be a means that all would have some moral knowledge that is not inherent in sinful flesh. We have verses that declare humans are sealed, no one bothers to include all as being sealed. Just like Reformed theology does not accept all as being included as even capable of being saved. Total depravity is spiritual death, but it is not an unchangeable condition. The means of change is lost on Reformed theology. They think it is forced or coerced. Nope, it is free and available to all. The point that there is a weighted decision is also there. But only in logic, because God does not deal in logic, when it comes to free will. If it was a choice of logic, then it would not be free will. Satan cannot understand it, so if it does not make sense, it shouldn't be something to worry about. It is not magic either, just because it cannot be grasped. It is ALL GOD.

Was it wrong for Calvin and Luther to attempt to figure it all out? Of course not, we are still trying to figure it all out in this very thread. Calvin and Luther were just braver going against an organization with more clout, than a few humans on an Internet forum.

 

[MartyF]

Of course Calvin knows more than Paul. Hehehehehehehehe!

Not the purpose of my posts.

 

[Yeshua1]

Did you really believe in Calvinism or do you believe in Compatibilism?

Can you describe how your beliefs are closer to Calvinism than Compatibilism?

Try to compare to John Calvin’s Calvinism and read his work called “No Mere Permission”.

Cannot one be both?

 

[Yeshua1]

Yet another utterly false assertion with no support from scripture. Only the P (eternal security) has actual support in scripture.
The lost were entering the kingdom, Matthew 23:13, thus the T is unbiblical.
The Thessalonians were chosen through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, thus the U is unbiblical
Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, thus the L is unbiblical.
The men of Matthew 23:13 were prevented from entering, thus the I of the TULIP is unbiblical.

All of the points are there, but you have set your mind against seeing them!

 

[Van]

All of the points are there, but you have set your mind against seeing them!

Yet another change the subject effort. I showed where four of the five points were unbiblical, and your response was to attack me. Go figure.

Only the P (eternal security) of the TULIP has actual support in scripture.
The lost were entering the kingdom, Matthew 23:13, thus the T is unbiblical.
The Thessalonians were chosen through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, thus the U is unbiblical
Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, thus the L is unbiblical. 1 Timothy 2:6
The men of Matthew 23:13 were prevented from entering, thus the I of the TULIP is unbiblical.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yet another change the subject effort. I showed where four of the five points were unbiblical, and your response was to attack me. Go figure.

Only the P (eternal security) of the TULIP has actual support in scripture.
The lost were entering the kingdom, Matthew 23:13, thus the T is unbiblical.
The Thessalonians were chosen through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, thus the U is unbiblical
Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, thus the L is unbiblical. 1 Timothy 2:6
The men of Matthew 23:13 were prevented from entering, thus the I of the TULIP is unbiblical.

Your understanding of the verses are what is unbiblical!

 

[Van]

Your understanding of the verses are what is unbiblical!

Yet another mindless taint so post. Pay no attention to wandering stars. Just read the passages folks.

Only the P (eternal security) of the TULIP has actual support in scripture.
The lost were entering the kingdom, Matthew 23:13, thus the T is unbiblical.
The Thessalonians were chosen through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, thus the U is unbiblical
Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, thus the L is unbiblical. 1 Timothy 2:6
The men of Matthew 23:13 were prevented from entering, thus the I of the TULIP is unbiblical.

 

[MartyF]

Cannot one be both?

In the same way a Roman Catholic can be a Baptist - yes.

They both believe Jesus died on the cross, but disagree on pretty major things such as Mariolotry, Papal infallibility, etc.

Calvinism is based on the Biblical interpretation of John Calvin - that is why it is called Calvinism.

In “No Mere Permission”, John Calvin said that those who support a belief many self-proclaimed Calvinists have posted on this forum are guilty of speaking against the Holy Spirit.

 

[MB]

There is no path in prison, MB. The unredeemed are enslaved to sin and in bondage. They need a Savior who will come to them and save them.

This is why the Lord sends preachers out to lead people to Christ
Preachers have been going to and preaching in Jails and prisons for years. You simply don't know what you are talking about
You see if you understood scripture you'd know this is why we preach to win souls to Christ. I'm sorry you've been so misguided and deceived. You need to study scripture as literal and stop placing your spin on how things really are. I've told you the truth the rest is up to you.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

Did you really believe in Calvinism or do you believe in Compatibilism?

Can you describe how your beliefs are closer to Calvinism than Compatibilism?

Try to compare to John Calvin’s Calvinism and read his work called “No Mere Permission”.

I believe in the doctrines of grace 100%.

 

[Reformed1689]

I would see it as meaning that we still have the amount of free will Adam had when created, before he fell!

And we do. We absolutely have that same amount. We are free to choose what we want without any restrictions.

 

[canadyjd]

Yes, lets.

I am saying that God gives humans a choice. Reject or Accept. He presents His Son to them, saying look how much I love you enough to die in your place, I offer you now Life. People will either consciously choose on their own ability to accept what God did, or to reject.

To say that God MAKES us (by, in your case, influencing a man/woman just enough to either cause them to turn from their sin and trust God or to stay lost) is making God out to be a dictator who FORCES his creation to accept/love Him. If it is HIS CHOICE that influences OUR choice, then why does He not just accept everyone? Well, then it would be fake love and not really love at all. Wouldn't you agree with those points?

I agree with you that God gives us a choice. I agree people will accept or reject Gods invitation. I disagree with you that people have the ability to come to God in their own.

You have acknowledged that God influences a person to accept Jesus as Savior. You called it Holy Spirit nudging a person to Christ.

Are you now saying that people can accept Christ without any influence from God, Holy Spirit? If so, I disagree.

I understand that you believe that my beliefs lead to certain conclusions that seem logical to you. Your characterizations of what I believe are untrue. Please let me explain what I believe.

My beliefs do not make God a “dictator”. My beliefs acknowledges God’s sovereignty in the salvation process.

I have never stated God “makes” us follow Him. God does not “force” someone to love Him. I say God intervenes in our lives which frees us from sinful influences and enables us to respond to His mercy with faith in Christ and genuine love.

Why God doesn’t choose to influence everyone, I cannot answer since that knowledge is His alone and part of His sovereign decrees. I know there was nothing special in me that warranted God’s intervention in my life.

As we continue our conversation, I ask that when you challenge my beliefs, please challenge them as I have described them.

peace to you

 

[Yeshua1]

And we do. We absolutely have that same amount. We are free to choose what we want without any restrictions.

We are still limited then by sin natures, as we will not desire to choose some things at all!

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe in the doctrines of grace 100%.

As do I, but one can still hold to both positions!

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree with you that God gives us a choice. I agree people will accept or reject Gods invitation. I disagree with you that people have the ability to come to God in their own.

You have acknowledged that God influences a person to accept Jesus as Savior. You called it Holy Spirit nudging a person to Christ.

Are you now saying that people can accept Christ without any influence from God, Holy Spirit? If so, I disagree.

I understand that you believe that my beliefs lead to certain conclusions that seem logical to you. Your characterizations of what I believe are untrue. Please let me explain what I believe.

My beliefs do not make God a “dictator”. My beliefs acknowledges God’s sovereignty in the salvation process.

I have never stated God “makes” us follow Him. God does not “force” someone to love Him. I say God intervenes in our lives which frees us from sinful influences and enables us to respond to His mercy with faith in Christ and genuine love.

Why God doesn’t choose to influence everyone, I cannot answer since that knowledge is His alone and part of His sovereign decrees. I know there was nothing special in me that warranted God’s intervention in my life.

As we continue our conversation, I ask that when you challenge my beliefs, please challenge them as I have described them.

peace to you

We can choose to receive Jesus as Lord due to Him first choosing us!

 

[AustinC]

@MB made the point perfectly clear in their one post:

Christ intended to save all who believe in Him. Dying for the whole world gives everyone the opportunity to be saved It's mans choice to believe or not. Many choose not to.

Christ died for ALL and only a FEW choose to ACCEPT HIM. What does that glorious scripture say?

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

Christ intended, but he failed. But, let's brag up the humans who were smart enough to choose Christ because they are the special ones.
Then let us take some verses out of context as proof that Christ failed and only the smart ones who choose the narrow gate are to be admired.
(Yes, I am being sarcastic because I really don't think you have a clue how wrong you are and I think only God himself can open your eyes to how disrespectful your views are to God's grace.)

 

[Yeshua1]

Christ intended, but he failed. But, let's brag up the humans who were smart enough to choose Christ because they are the special ones.
Then let us take some verses out of context as proof that Christ failed and only the smart ones who choose the narrow gate are to be admired.
(Yes, I am being sarcastic because I really don't think you have a clue how wrong you are and I think only God himself can open your eyes to how disrespectful your views are to God's grace.)

The thing is that lost sinners prefer to stay in the darkness!

 

[Reformed1689]

We are still limited then by sin natures, as we will not desire to choose some things at all!

But that has nothing to do with free will and that is the point.