Do we have to confess our sins ?

[Zenas]

Can you show me a verse that says that every human being who ever lived is a child of God?

Luke 3:38. If Adam was the son of God, we are all sons of God.

 

[Jedi Knight]

I didn't make that up, it was written by Peter as part of the inspired Word of God. I'm sorry you don't agree with it.

Who wrote Peter? Who wanted to sifted him as wheat.... the devil? But Jesus said...I have prayed for you and when you return strengthen your brethern..thus Peter writes from experience. Notice Jesus prayed for him......no one can snatch them from the Master. Compare scripture with scripture.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Luke 3:38. If Adam was the son of God, we are all sons of God.

Observe....But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, John 1:12 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. John 8:44

 

[Zenas]

There were some who professed to believe in Christ, but Christ perceived that they had nothing more than intellectual faith in him but no moral change of character. They claimed to be children of God (Jn. 6:41) but Jesus denied they were children of God but rather were children of Satan:

Jn. 6:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.....44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

All may be children of God in the sense they are products His creation (Acts 17:26-29) but they are not children of God in the sense of having been born of the Spirit of God as this is something that Jesus told an old man that he was still in need of (Jn. 3:3-6). Indeed, we come into this world as "children of wrath" and "children of disobedience" but not as Spirit born "children of God" (Eph. 2:1-3).

Those who are "children of the flesh" will be disinherited but not those born of the Spirit - Jn. 5:24 - because their own works are not regarded by God as the grounds for justification before God (Rom. 4:1-25).

It is true that all "born again" children of God have the indwelling Spirit and are being progressively sanctified but progressive sanctification is never perfected in this life and does not count for qualifying for entrance into heaven.

The essential error of your position is that you think all humans come into this world as "children of God" in a spiritual sense.

Yes, the Bible does make a distinction between the spiritual sense and the genealogical sense. But this does not change the fact that we can lose the legacy. We can fall from grace.

 

[Zenas]

Who wrote Peter? Who was sifted as wheat by the devil? Peter! But Jesus said...I have prayed for you and when you return strengthen your brethern..thus Peter writes from experience. Notice Jesus prayed for him......no one can snatch them from the Master. Compare scripture with scripture.

Sifted, yes, but Peter was not devoured. Yet he realizes you can be devoured by Satan. Otherwise Peter is a liar.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Sifted, yes, but Peter was not devoured. Yet he realizes you can be devoured by Satan. Otherwise Peter is a liar.

Peter is not a liar....your understanding is just messed up.lol

 

[annsni]

Yes, the Bible does make a distinction between the spiritual sense and the genealogical sense. But this does not change the fact that we can lose the legacy. We can fall from grace.

And I disagree that the Bible teaches that. The Holy Spirit is our guarantee. If the Holy Spirit is our guarantee, how does that guarantee get taken away? It can't.

 

[rbell]

Wow...I guess that to zenas, God's gift of salvation is conditional.

Your salvation is all about timing, huh? Hope you don't hit your thumb with a hammer right before you keel over...

Yes, it written to believers and that is why this verse is so significant. Believers are already forgiven, at least according to OSAS theology. So why ask to be forgiven again? Is such even possible? How do you get absolution from a sin that has already been forgiven? However, if you realize that the only sins forgiven when you are saved are those in your past, it makes ultimate good sense to seek forgiveness of sins as they are committed. Any other interpretation of John 1:9 spins it so far from its real meaning it becomes unrecognizable.

Seems you must have forgotten much of the rest of 1 John, which tells us how "we might know..."

 

[Zenas]

And I disagree that the Bible teaches that. The Holy Spirit is our guarantee. If the Holy Spirit is our guarantee, how does that guarantee get taken away? It can't.

These are a few of the many passages I cannot reconcile with eternal security. In fact they cannot be reconciled unless you take them out of context and give them a meaning they do not have.

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4.

My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20.

but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified. 1 Corinthians 9:27.

The parable of the unforgiving servant. Matthew 18:23-35.

The parable of the prodigal son. Luke 15:11-32.

 

[Zenas]

Wow...I guess that to zenas, God's gift of salvation is conditional.

Absolutely.

Your salvation is all about timing, huh? Hope you don't hit your thumb with a hammer right before you keel over...

Yeah, me too. :laugh: However, I do believe some sins are worse than others. 1 John 5:16-17.

Seems you must have forgotten much of the rest of 1 John, which tells us how "we might know..."

The whole book is about conditional salvation. "He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son does not have eternal life." The thing is we are free to accept or to reject Christ, and we are free to change our minds at any time.

 

[DHK]

Absolutely.

Yeah, me too. :laugh: However, I do believe some sins are worse than others. 1 John 5:16-17.
The whole book is about conditional salvation. "He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son does not have eternal life." The thing is we are free to accept or to reject Christ, and we are free to change our minds at any time.

Interesting. And can you say to your mother: "I've changed my mind about being born, can you put me back again?"

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

 

[Winman]

Believing on Jesus is a once and for all thing.

John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jesus compares everlasting life to water here. He says that whosoever drinks normal water will thirst again. They will have to come back again and again.

But the water Jesus gives us (the Holy Spirit and everlasting life) is a one time thing. Once you drink, you will never thirst again, you do not need to keep coming back. You do not have to continually drink, once you drink one time you will never thirst again.

Jesus also said that he would send the Comforter, the Holy Spirit that would abide with us forever.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

For a person to lose their salvation, the Holy Spirit would have to leave them. But Jesus said he would abide with us for ever. You can try as you might to get rid of the Holy Spirit, but wherever you go He will go with you.

 

[annsni]

Absolutely.

Yeah, me too. :laugh: However, I do believe some sins are worse than others. 1 John 5:16-17.

Yet sin does not enter heaven so either we pay for it or God does. Last I checked, God did it.

The whole book is about conditional salvation. "He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son does not have eternal life." The thing is we are free to accept or to reject Christ, and we are free to change our minds at any time.

That's as conditional as it gets. But instead you say "He who has the Son has the life....unless he has sinned and not asked for forgiveness then he has the Son but doesn't have life. He who does not have the Son or those who have sin in their lives does not have eternal life. Eternal does not mean eternal because you can get it and lose it so it's temporary."

 

[annsni]

These are a few of the many passages I cannot reconcile with eternal security. In fact they cannot be reconciled unless you take them out of context and give them a meaning they do not have.

My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20.

Is this natural death or eternal death? For those who are unsaved, it is probably both. For those who are saved, it would be natural death.

but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified. 1 Corinthians 9:27.

He does not become disqualified from salvation but from the ministry.

The parable of the unforgiving servant. Matthew 18:23-35.

Was this parable speaking on salvation?

The parable of the prodigal son. Luke 15:11-32.

Was the prodigal son ever not his father's son?

 

[Zenas]

Interesting. And can you say to your mother: "I've changed my mind about being born, can you put me back again?"

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Go back and read the second paragraph of Post 15.

 

[Zenas]

Believing on Jesus is a once and for all thing.

John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jesus compares everlasting life to water here. He says that whosoever drinks normal water will thirst again. They will have to come back again and again.

But the water Jesus gives us (the Holy Spirit and everlasting life) is a one time thing. Once you drink, you will never thirst again, you do not need to keep coming back. You do not have to continually drink, once you drink one time you will never thirst again.

Jesus also said that he would send the Comforter, the Holy Spirit that would abide with us forever.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

For a person to lose their salvation, the Holy Spirit would have to leave them. But Jesus said he would abide with us for ever. You can try as you might to get rid of the Holy Spirit, but wherever you go He will go with you.

As with most promises, there is an implied condition of continuing faith and obedience. See 1 Samuel 16, where the Spirit of God left Saul.

 

[Zenas]

Yet sin does not enter heaven so either we pay for it or God does. Last I checked, God did it.



That's as conditional as it gets. But instead you say "He who has the Son has the life....unless he has sinned and not asked for forgiveness then he has the Son but doesn't have life. He who does not have the Son or those who have sin in their lives does not have eternal life. Eternal does not mean eternal because you can get it and lose it so it's temporary."

"Eternal life only happens in the age to come. It can be lost is this life. See Mark 19:30; Luke 18:30; Titus 1:2.

 

[Jedi Knight]

"Eternal life only happens in the age to come. It can be lost is this life. See Mark 19:30; Luke 18:30; Titus 1:2.

you should look up the scripture....Has eternal life and shall not come into judgment but has passed from death to life. Jesus was not talking future here...he was talking right here right now.

 

[DHK]

Go back and read the second paragraph of Post 15.

I did. Here is what it said:

Surely you have seen wills where a parent says something like, "I give my entire estate to my children, namely Abe, Bob, Charles and Don. I deliberately leave nothing to my fifth child Eddie because he has been disrespectful [or for whatever reason]." Note that Eddie is just as much a child as the other four but he has been deprived of the legacy. It's the same thing when one of God's saved children falls from grace.

Now I ask you again: Can you say to your mother, "I don't like this life, take me back into your womb so that I won't be born."
The question is not of losing one's inheritance, but of the new birth or second birth. Jesus said you must be born again.

 

[Zenas]

Is this natural death or eternal death? For those who are unsaved, it is probably both. For those who are saved, it would be natural death.

It's eternal death for a "brother", i.e., one who has been saved. It means you are saving him from going to Hell.

He does not become disqualified from salvation but from the ministry.

I don't think so. Instead of "disqualified" the KJV uses "castaway" and the ASV uses "rejected."

Was this parable speaking on salvation?

Of course it was. Why else would the servant be handed over to the torturers until he repaid all that was owed to the master? When you do the math, you will see it was impossible for this servant to ever repay what he owed. Therefore the punishment was permanent. Then Jesus says the heavenly Father will do the same to you if each of you does not forgive . . . .

Was the prodigal son ever not his father's son?

Yes, he was, but before he left, he was in ghe good graces of his father (saved). Then he became lost (unsaved). When he returned he was back in the good graces of his father (saved). You can be a child and still be denied the legacy. See the second paragraph of Post 15.

Like I said, these passages cannot be reconciled unless you take them out of context and give them a meaning they do not have.