-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Do We Receive Faith?
- Thread starter Baptizo
- Start date
Peter wrote both of his epistles to the Gentile Churches throughout Asia Minor.
"To them who have obtained like precious faith with us," is referring to the Gentiles who could now be saved as the Jews.
This is the mystery before the foundation of the world that was kept secret from man, that Paul talked about.
The Gentiles being grafted in the New Covenant with the Jews.
There is a detailed account in Acts (to lazy to post) of Peter and the Jews being astonished when the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles and they were saved.
The Jews believed only a Jew could be saved. They didn't know any better, it was kept from them that the Gentiles would be saved.
To lazy to post Paul's account of this mystery hidden from the Jews.
It would be better for you to look it up anyway, you'll remember it that way.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Mine reads:
" Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: " ( 2 Peter 1:1, AV ).
How I read it is as I see it stated...
Peter is addressing those who have obtained the "common" ( see Titus 1:4 ) faith, which is inherently present in all genuine believers.
That faith was through the righteousness of God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Similar to the translation that you posted, "received" and "obtained" mean the same thing.
In addition, I know from other passages that my faith is a gift from God ( Ephesians 2:8 ), that my faith was authored and finished by Jesus Christ ( Hebrews 12:2 ), that it is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen ( Hebrews 11:1 ), that my faith is "of" ( by or from ) Jesus Christ ( Galatians 2:20 ) and like Paul, I live this life by the faith of ( by or from ) the Son of God...who loved me and gave Himself for me ( Galatians 3:16 ).
To state it differently, I didn't "exercise" faith to be saved;
I inherited my faith as a product of God saving me.
Last edited:
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Yep. It’s in Acts 13 and the part where the gentiles believe is verse 48.
Now lookup the mystery that Paul revealed that the Gentiles would be saved the same as the Jews.
Eph. 3:1-6
For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
In both cases, the faith that is spoken of appears to be given with salvation. That is because of salvation. The faith spoken of in Romans comes with the explanation of spiritual gifts and their exercise and use.
The faith spoken of here is also obtained through the righteousness of God. It could be accurately read that the precious faith they share is that faith in Christ. This would then be a different usage of the giving of faith.
Are there any other times in God’s Word where faith is said to be given?
If it is given, Jesus either hadn’t given it to the disciples or they had misplaced it. Luke 8:25
By default God made man what he is and there is no attribute or ability that man has that is not from God. (Disclaimer: sin is a corruption and distortion of the attributes God gave to man. I do not attribute corruption to God)
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
In both cases, the faith that is spoken of appears to be given with salvation. That is because of salvation. The faith spoken of in Romans comes with the explanation of spiritual gifts and their exercise and use.
The faith spoken of here is also obtained through the righteousness of God. It could be accurately read that the precious faith they share is that faith in Christ. This would then be a different usage of the giving of faith.
Are there any other times in God’s Word where faith is said to be given?
If it is given, Jesus either hadn’t given it to the disciples or they had misplaced it. Luke 8:25
By default God made man what he is and there is no attribute or ability that man has that is not from God. (Disclaimer: sin is a corruption and distortion of the attributes God gave to man. I do not attribute corruption to God)
Kai
Active Member
Calvinists point to the phrase “received a faith” as support for the idea that faith is received from God, consistent with unconditional election and God's effectual calling. They understand saving faith as something God grants to those He has elected.
Arminians agree that faith comes through God's grace, but they argue that the word “received” doesn't establish unconditional election or irresistible grace. They believe God's prevenient grace enables people to respond to the gospel, without determining their response.
Both sides agree that salvation rests on God's grace and Christ's righteousness. The disagreement is whether receiving faith means God unconditionally determines who will believe, or whether His grace enables a genuine human response.
Arminians agree that faith comes through God's grace, but they argue that the word “received” doesn't establish unconditional election or irresistible grace. They believe God's prevenient grace enables people to respond to the gospel, without determining their response.
Both sides agree that salvation rests on God's grace and Christ's righteousness. The disagreement is whether receiving faith means God unconditionally determines who will believe, or whether His grace enables a genuine human response.
Speaking from the reformed side of things, though I do disagree with many of the "system reformers" these days.
I believe that the word "faith" in 2 Peter 1:1 is speaking of the life that the Spirit gives when we are indwelt after first believing. Very much like "faith" in Hebrews 12:2 is used as a metaphor for 'life' in that same way.
Hebrews 12:2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
The same word, "Author" from Hebrews 12:2 speaking of "faith" is used in Acts 3:15 "Prince" speaking of "life"
Acts 3:15 and killed the Prince [Author] of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses.
The idea of the word "faith" being a metaphor for 'life' in 2 Peter 1:1 is confirmed by the core message in the immediate context that 2 Peter 1:3-4 continues.
2 Peter 1:3-4 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Also consider the Gospel of John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
And in John's Epistle, 1 John 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
"Faith" is also used as a metaphor for the New Testament (or New Covenant), which could also be seen as, and defined as, spiritual life.
Also consider Galatians 3:21-29, which appears to use "life" and "faith" interchangeably. It really paints a vivid picture that is very clear.
Galatians 3:21-29 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized [placed into] into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Last edited:
Hi Everyone!
I didn’t post this morning because I was trying to learn how to use the “select to quote” tool and couldn’t make it work. I sent an email to the website to ask if there was a
place on the website that explained how it worked but I haven’t heard anything
so I thought I would ask you for help. I’ll be on in the morning either way. Thanks!
I didn’t post this morning because I was trying to learn how to use the “select to quote” tool and couldn’t make it work. I sent an email to the website to ask if there was a
place on the website that explained how it worked but I haven’t heard anything
so I thought I would ask you for help. I’ll be on in the morning either way. Thanks!
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
1. The way I responded to you this post is by selecting the “+quote” button and then adding quotes to the post as below.
If you select the “-quote” you will remove the post from your available posts to quote. These will stack up, so if you add five quotes in this way, they will all be available to add to your post.
2. The easiest way to quote one person is to just reply to their posts.
3. You can also select text in a post and an option to quote the selected text should come up. If you are on a smartphone, you may need to click into the browser menu and out of it in order to clear it out of the way to see the forum menu.
Hope this helps.
Thanks, I’ll try it!
Hi Dave,
2 Pet 1:1
SIMON Peter, servant and apostle of Jesus Christ: to them that have obtained equal faith with us in the justice of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ.
2 Pet 1:4
By whom he hath given us most great and precious promises: that by these you may be made partakers of the divine nature: flying the corruption of that concupiscence which is in the world.
I’m probably going to have a lot of questions. I was just wondering about this. When you use the word “inherited”, and likewise ”obtained” in verse 1, do you mean that Faith Inheres? We say it does and verse 4 points this out when it says we may be made “partakers of the divine nature“.
Great Question!!!
For the record, I am a non-Calvinist, but not an Arminian.
Received a faith ... like ours. Here Peter is saying the faith has a common characteristic shared by all born anew believers. But it is not a characteristic of the "faith" we formulated when we put our trust, devotion and commitment upon Christ Jesus. That would not be the "received faith."
But what if we "receive" accreditation of our faith by God, when and if God chooses to credit our faith as righteousness? This action would fit the description, a received faith like Peter's.
For the record, I am a non-Calvinist, but not an Arminian.
Received a faith ... like ours. Here Peter is saying the faith has a common characteristic shared by all born anew believers. But it is not a characteristic of the "faith" we formulated when we put our trust, devotion and commitment upon Christ Jesus. That would not be the "received faith."
But what if we "receive" accreditation of our faith by God, when and if God chooses to credit our faith as righteousness? This action would fit the description, a received faith like Peter's.
How do lost persons become partakers in the divine nature?
By being chosen for salvation and transferred into Christ's spiritual body, such that the lost person is in Christ, and being indwelt, Christ is in them.
The nature of our Triune God is three Persons in One God.
By being chosen for salvation and transferred into Christ's spiritual body, such that the lost person is in Christ, and being indwelt, Christ is in them.
The nature of our Triune God is three Persons in One God.
Kai
Active Member
I’m not anti-Calvinist or anti-Arminian either, but I do think that this is actually one of the verses where the Calvinist interpretation gets caught in a bit of an inconsistency.
Many will suggest that when someone comes to faith, that is the result of God’s predestination of everything that happens in time. So in that sense, we receive our faith because it was determined to happen ahead of time.
The Arminian might push back and say that means God forces people into faith without their consent. They will respond and say no—what God really predestines is a change of nature in some people. Only then they can respond positively to the Gospel by their own volition.
Well, which is it? Does God force people into belief, or does he force a change in nature? The answers will vary.
Many will suggest that when someone comes to faith, that is the result of God’s predestination of everything that happens in time. So in that sense, we receive our faith because it was determined to happen ahead of time.
The Arminian might push back and say that means God forces people into faith without their consent. They will respond and say no—what God really predestines is a change of nature in some people. Only then they can respond positively to the Gospel by their own volition.
Well, which is it? Does God force people into belief, or does he force a change in nature? The answers will vary.
THIS ANSWERS BOTH OF YOUR POSTS
Hi Van,
I first want to thank you for your comments and to remind you that I’m catholic. I’ve been studying Arminianism and Calvinism and have questions and, of course, I will make comments too.
Anyway, interesting thoughts you have! Accreditation would probably be right. Or imputation. I think the idea with both Arminianism and Calvinism is that grace is in Christ and Inheres in Him. It doesn’t Inhere in man. Then, at the moment you are born again, that grace is transferrred to you and passes through you to save you but it doesn’t stay in you. Faith is there as an attendant or something like that. That’s my understanding. For us, the grace stays in us. We are not filled with grace. We receive a down payment. A pledge or earnest (2 Cor 1:22; Eph 1:14).
I would agree that “chosen” occurs when you are regenerated. We believe that happens at baptism. Not to confuse you but we are also chosen (as a preparation before full regeneration) when we receive prevenient grace before baptism (like the arminians). I think it happens initially in Arminianism when you receive prevenient grace. It happens in Calvinism when you receive the effectual call (full regeneration).
Hi Kai,
Good question! Difficult to answer in a post but I’ll say that what you described for each one at the moment they first receive grace is that:
Calvinism - they are elected to regeneration (effectual call) (they wouldn’t probably say it that way but it describes what takes place)
Arminianism - they are elected to grace (prevenient). This gradually leads to full regeneration.
Which is right? We would say neither one but they both have good points. We agree with some things and disagree with some things. Gradually I’ll try to answer this.