Do You Agree with Calvin or Wright On the Nature of the Atonement?

Shiow me the quote where I said "innate faith" or ability save themselves?" None will be forthcoming, so yet another falsehood, from smear - o matic.

Did you address the bogus doctrine of total spiritual inability? Nope. So yet another change the subject post.

Folks, this is all they have, the use of false arguments to deflect and obfuscate any actual discussion of biblical doctrine.

1) Fallen people can will be be saved, Romans 9:16.
2) Fallen people seek God ;through works or faith or both, Romans 9:31-33
3) 3 of 4 soils received the gospel, Matthew 13:1-23
4) Men were entering the kingdom showing some spiritual ability, Matthew 23:13

But has Agedman addressed these scriptures? Nope. He did indicate they do not show spiritual ability. Which is laughable.

 

My view is robust because it is biblical truth.
Did I say or suggest all would be saved? Nope, so yet another smear.
My view is the contextual view, (God desires all people to be saved but not by compulsion) most people (except #1 soil) have the limited spiritual ability to seek God and have faith in God.
Your claim of total spiritual inability has been shown to be bogus and unbiblical.

 

I was pointing out that the scripture posted DID NOT support what some people would desire.

You still have not stated where I added to the Scriptures.

I even showed exactly how THAT verse is to be viewed. That is not adding to the Scripture, it is discerning the truth.

So take 2 Peter 3, post it, and show where I added or even where what I posted was error. It was THAT scripture you said I added.

I wait and look forward to reading your own work on 2 Peter 3 with figuring out the Scripture.

 

1 Peter 2 - “Christ bore our sins...”

 

Van,

You are most inconsistent.

You say fallen people can enter, then deny they have the ability.

You say fallen people can will on their own to be saved, then deny they have that ability.

And so forth.

What makes discussing with you difficult is you make a statement, throw in a Scripture, make some claim, but have no foundational support from the Scripture - even the one you posted.

Because you can’t discuss, then there is no point continuing the interaction on this topic with you.

 

Why not address the topic. Why seek to change the topic.
Why say that I say people were entering, when the person who said it was Jesus. Why not stick to the truth.
Why say that I people can will to be saved, when the person who said it was Paul. Why not stick to the truth.
Why say you have been interacting on the topic of total spiritual inability, when you have not. Why not stick to the truth.

1) Fallen people can will be be saved, Romans 9:16.
2) Fallen people seek God ;through works or faith or both, Romans 9:31-33
3) 3 of 4 soils received the gospel, Matthew 13:1-23
4) Men were entering the kingdom showing some spiritual ability, Matthew 23:13

Total Spiritual Inability, the "T" of the TULIP is bogus and unbiblical doctrine, the actual biblical doctrine is fallen people have limited spiritual ability, they can understand spiritual milk bu t not spiritual meat, 1 Corinthians 2:14-3:3.

 

To continue with Van's list, from the same passages could be taught,

5) Fallen men add to the guilt of their parents, Matthew 23:32
6) Swearing is approved by God, Matthew 23:18 - 23
7) People will be rich by taking from the poor, Matthew 13:12
8) Fallen people will attain righteousness, Romans 9:30

 

You attempted, but the passage is crystal clear. I've also supplied crystal clear supporting passages. All you've cited are theological options. Classic eisegesis.

 

No quote will be forthcoming, these are not my views. Agedman simply makes up bogus views and attributes them to me, wasting everyone's time and hindering discussion of total spiritual inability.

Here is the actual list, the list being dodged, avoided, etc!
1) Fallen people can will be be saved, Romans 9:16.
2) Fallen people seek God ;through works or faith or both, Romans 9:31-33
3) 3 of 4 soils received the gospel, Matthew 13:1-23
4) Men were entering the kingdom showing some spiritual ability, Matthew 23:13

 

You can say the T means this, and I will say the T means that. My view is well know, and to challenge it is just another deflection. Folks just google it!!!

 

Pay no mind to efforts to deflect.

 

Perhaps you need to consider the following:

1) Christ died because His blood was depleted from His body, and it was the blood that is the remissions of sin.
John's use of propitiation in his letters was specific about the blood dealt with the sin issue for the whole world.
Johns statement in the gospels of the death of Christ was for the whole world.
Paul's use of propitiation was specific to the tabernacle/temple furniture in which the blood was sprinkled. That the seat of God (so to indicated when God's presence came to rest on both the tabernacle and temple) was sprinkled with the blood for all in the land - irregardless of faith, race, creed, custom...

There is no contention between us on this matter.

What seems to have rubbed the fur wrongly is the work on the verse of 2 Peter 3.

2) As one who holds to the Doctrines of Grace, without the "reformed view" of limited atonement, but the Scripture view that atonement is limited by God's direct and purposed choosing of those saved, it is highly inconsistent to suggest that "desire" contains some obligation of God. It does not.

For example:
Scriptures state that "every knee will bow.." That is not a desire; rather, it is that which will take place.

In contrast the Scriptures state in Acts 17, "30“Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,..."

Yet in 2 Peter 3, "9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

What is the difference between these two "ALL" statements.

The one in Acts 17 is directed to the people of the world.

The one in 2 Peter 3 is directed to the believers. As one follows the flow of who is the subject (the personal pronouns of the verse), there is nothing to even suggest that the verse can be aligned to all people of the world.

But there is a matter of deportment we need to address.

It is appropriate that we discuss the Scriptures and that we render meaning from the Scriptures.

It is appropriate that we discuss the limits of application that occur in a passage.

But it is not appropriate for you to slander this old man by stating that I have added to the Scriptures. That is a false statement, only supported by bias and opinion. It has no basis in reality.

 

He goes much further.
Van states:

1) Fallen people can will be be saved, Romans 9:16.
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Unsupported by the Scripture he offers.

2) Fallen people seek God ;through works or faith or both, Romans 9:31-33
​

Unsupported by the Scripture he offers.

3) 3 of 4 soils received the gospel, Matthew 13:1-23
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Ignores that the stony and shallow were given no ability nor prepared to sustain life. That only one soil was harvested.

4) Men were entering the kingdom showing some spiritual ability, Matthew 23:13
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Unsupported by the Scripture he offers

 

[Edit] People are totally unable to come to Christ apart from God's drawing grace. Don't see much of a problem with this biblically.