Do you believe in disciplining children

[Roguelet]

SEE THIS BOOK DEALS WITH ALL YOUR POINTS ONLY IT USES SCRIPTURE TO BACK IT UP !

What the Bible Says About Child Training

Parenting With Confidence

This book provides Biblical answers for parents' questions about:

How to be successful parents and thereby receive God's promised blessings

How to set standards and train up a child in the way he should go

How to teach a child according to his stages of growth

How to understand and control a child's negative behavior traits

How to express true love to your child

How to identify and conquer a child's rebellion

How to punish a child justly and in love

How to produce a well-adjusted, self-confident, moral, young adult who is prepared for a successful life
Table of Contents:

Section One : The Parent,

1. What Do I Do Now?

2. God's Promises to Parents

3. Parental Accountability

4. Principles of Authority

5. Parental Authority

6. Parental Responsibility

Section Two: The Child

7. The Child's Nature

8. The Ages of a Child

Section Three: Training Your Children

9. What Child Training Means
10. Negative Training

11. The Two Facets of Children Training

Section Four: Controling Your Child

12. What Control Means

13. Where Do I Begin?

14. Evaluating the Conflict

15. Rebellion

16. Chastisement

17. The Correct Use of Chastisement

18. Control is Essential to Child Training

Section Five: Teaching Your Children

19. What Teaching Means


20. Punishment

21. Standards

22. Rebuke

23. Guilt and Confession

24. Forgiveness

25. Examples

Appendices:

A. The Bible as a Source of Information for Man

B. Hope for the Failing Parent

C. Greek Words Relating to Children

D. Teenagers

 

[Roguelet]

Bapmom wrote

The main problem Ive seen in this area, among those who are trying to discipline correctly, is parents not talking to their child during and after the disciplining. We've made it a general rule to not ever just send them to their room and have them wait for awhile. This might happen if we need to calm down for a minute or two. But we always tell them why they will be getting a spanking, give it to them, then talk about what they could or should have done differently. I try to end in having them pray or me praying with them, especially if its a serious offense. Then always tell them "I love you" at the end. They need to hear it.

Ive also found that while they are young they need MORE spankings, not less. If you do it right when they are younger, than the older they get the less they will need one.

Very good point, one of which is brought up in the book and one we also do in our home. We even go as far as having the child ask for forgiveness for the offense he/she has made. Something we all have to do with others and God all the time, Or we should do.

 

[Bartimaeus]

Originally posted by Roguelet:

Funny how people can do this when TRAINING animals especially dogs but they can't do it with their own children !

Soooo........what do you know about training dogs? PM if you want --- don't mean to hijack the thread.
Thanks ------Bart

 

[Petrel]

Originally posted by Roguelet:
Funny how people can do this when TRAINING animals especially dogs but they can't do it with their own children !

That's an interesting comparison. . . I would never hit my dog with a rod. I would put a prong collar on it, but the point of prong collars is not to cause pain (that level of correction is used only for dangerous behaviors that need to stop now). I'd say if you need to frequently physically correct your dog to the point of pain, you're doing something very wrong. And your dog probably doesn't like you very much either.

Interestingly with difficult dogs the best way to go is not to beat the dog into submission at every infraction but to pick your battles and in the end win the war.

I think that there is definitely a comparison that can be drawn between dog training and child-rearing, but the conclusion I reach is that the first step in the process is not reaching for the switch.

 

[Thankful]

posted by Roquelet

Thankful I guess Gods word is wrong and we need to throw this area of scripture OUT !

Did I say that? I just don't believe that the "rod" means hitting a child and I really don't believe in spanking unless it is very, very necessary.

Further, I have a very well trained dog and I have only spanked him once. One swat with a fly swatter.

Furthermore, don't try to say what I think about the Bible. It is God's Holy Word!

I believe in discipline. I have 8 grandchildren, ages 18 months to 20 years and not once have I spanked any one of them. They are very well behaved and know what I expect when they are in my care.

No one has to follow my methods and no one has to agree with my methods. All the older children are Christians. Praise the Lord.

 

[TexasSky]

First - My children are not dogs. I'm sorry that you view yours as if they are.

Second - The fact is most people who wave that verse around don't spank to discipline - they abuse.

The parents who spank to discipline don't feel they need to accuse others who can control their children without beating them of ignoring the bible.

 

[Bunyon]

"Second - The fact is most people who wave that verse around don't spank to discipline - they abuse"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is quite a blanket indictment.

 

[TexasSky]

I'm sorry Bunyon, but its based on experience.

I know a LOT of parents who DO spank in a Godly manner, and I don't condemn them at all.

But, the ones who pound pulpits screaming that the world is ignoring God by ignoring that verse are the same ones who end up on the front page of the paper.

 

[Bunyon]

"But, the ones who pound pulpits screaming that the world is ignoring God by ignoring that verse are the same ones who end up on the front page of the paper."

It stands to reason that abusers would try to justify their abuse with this verse. But alot of chritians who also use this verse and believe it is secular hogwash that you can't spank are using spankings as a ligitimate last resort.
My Mom was abusive, but I still recognize the biblical use of the rod as ligitimate. While also recognizing the admonition to not provoke your children to wrath. I have not seen anyone in this discussion who I suspect of abuse. Everyone seems to have a well rounded view on it.

 

[TexasSky]

Bunyon,

That is why I prefaced it all with saying that I do know Christians who spank in a Godly way.

My Mother was not abusive, but Mother was as quick to point out that you shouldn't provoke children unto wrath as she was to point out "spare the rod"...

 

[Roguelet]

I KNEW I WAS GOING TO GET A RESPONSE ON THIS

My sister was so into dog training and doing everything right. But her child she never disciplined.

Here are a few principles in dog training since I trained many dogs. There are similarities.

Give a clear command to the dog like " Sit " "stay " if the dog doesn't obey you jerk on his choke chain ( lets say thats the ROD ) then repeat the command if he obeys the command you give him praise or a reward. if he doesn't you jerk again. it isn't long before he gets the idea and obeys ON FIRST COMMAND.

Bottom line we make sure we give clear rules to our kids. When they disrespect those rules ( not doing something we asked them or doing something we asked them NOT to do ) we INFORSE the rule by a quick discipline using the " Rod " more so when they are little. Like I nad Bapmom and a few others said then you talk to them about what they did and what is expected and love them and have them when they are ready to ask for forgiveness. You do this all without being angry. The key words in Dog Training and Disciplining kids is FIRM, CONSISTANT and LOVING
just like dog training.

the quicker and more consistant you are the better behaved dog and child you will have.

 

[TexasSky]

Roguelet,

I still do not think you should compare your children to a dog. To begin with, you CAN reason with children - you cannot "reason" with a dog.

Second - your child was made in God's image. Your dog was not.

 

[Petrel]

I think you missed a step. You first need to make sure the dog knows what the command means. If you're telling the dog, "Sit!" and jerking on the dog in hopes that it might figure out "sit" means "plant rear on ground," you're not going to get very far. The correction phase comes after the dog knows the command (which is taught using praise and rewards). Likewise, children should not be punished for not obeying until they are old enough to understand what you want.

Next, you have said that the purpose of spanking is to cause pain, and you said that a rod is better because it is really painful while things like wooden spoons and paddles are not. I think that this is completely ridiculous from my own experience (and just a little frightening!), but that's beside the point. When you spank the kid, you want it to hurt and want the kid to cry.

So every time you tell your dog to sit and it doesn't obey immediately, do you yank the collar so hard that it screams and rolls over on the floor? If not, you are apparently treating your dog better than your child.

That level of correction is as a routine thing is completely unnecessary and excessively cruel. Likewise, spanking children as a first resort is unnecessary and cruel.

As long as we're talking about training other species, my cats are trained in the things that are important to me ("out" to leave the room, "floor" to jump onto the floor from whatever they're climbing on, as two examples) and I have never felt it was necessary to hit them--that would be completely counterproductive, in fact.

 

[TexasSky]

What is your purpose Rogulet? To make the child fear you? Or to teach the child better limits?

 

[Roguelet]

Texassky get a grip how many times to I have to say the same thing over and over for you to get it ?

Obviously you do not have any children or you just might get this. I see the 17 year old kid and a few others get it.

The book is hundreds of pages long so there is a lot that has to do with child training than just spanking, including all the things I have already mentioned. Please reread my post. Spanking is for Deliberate Disobedienceand if applied early and often you will have a child trained to obey authority, as he gets older there will be less and less spanking and more other types like lossing privledges. The reason spankings are SO effective at an early age is you cannot reason with a toddler and the rod is the only thing they will understand, as they get older the rod still needs to be used along with understanding and as they get even older ususually around puberty then disobedence should be less and you deal more with loss of preveldges.

If you read the book or had children this would all make sense to you.

 

[Roguelet]

Petrel sorry for not mentioning ever aspect of dog training to you. I was summerizing to make a point. and yes you do yank the chain just enough to teach the dog his response was wrong, maybe you need to take a class and learn how it is done.

And yes the child needs enough of a spanking if you use the right tool like God said you will only need a few wacks and it need not be forsefull since the tool will cause a sting at any strength used. I remember the book saying that if you use a switch if the child tightens his buttocks the sting will be greater, if you use any other tool it isn't effective, it is more blunt, so the child wins. How much pressure you use will depend on the age of the child. That is where you do not understand Gods word on why the rod or switch is to be used. A belt, paddle or wooden spoon is too WIDE therefore you need more forse which could cause too much pain and bruising or welts. Hey argue with GOD NOT ME I didn't write these things in the bible he did. the problem with spanking isn't Gods word or the tool he suggest it that most people DO IT WRONG !

I do not have the book right now I must have given it to someone like I always do.

I have 4 children 14 to 25 and they all turned out pretty darn good they are hard working, they respect authority always have and I never had a toddler that threw a tantrum at home or any where we were at. they weren't bullies, they always behaved where ever they went, whether at church or peoples houses. I have gotten lots of compliments on how well behave they are. So we must have done something right. just sharing what we have found to work not only for us but others who apply Gods principles to their life. It's the liberal politically correct media you choose to obey then you reap what you sow. No wonder they have all kinds of books and shows on child training, cause very few listen to God but MORE SO on all those supposed experts who can't EVEN agree with one another

 

[TexasSky]

"So the child wins" = "This is a game."

This should NOT be a game.

This should be something that you do to help your child learn to be a better person, and you should NOT treat it like an animal training session.

 

[Roguelet]

Why do you twist my words so ?

He wins in the sense that he got one over on you. You know the old saying one step forward two steps back. The more the child " wins " over your authority means the more time it takes to train them.

Same with animals, we use the expression with dogs or horses if we leave on a good note in their training meaning they have submitted to the training, then the next time you work with them they remember " you were in charge not them " which makes it easier to deal with them the next time. That is why it is so important to be consistant.

By the way Texas do you have children ?

 

[Petrel]

Originally posted by Roguelet:
Petrel sorry for not mentioning ever aspect of dog training to you. I was summerizing to make a point. and yes you do yank the chain just enough to teach the dog his response was wrong, maybe you need to take a class and learn how it is done.

Obviously I know how it is done, since I just explained it to you. It is not necessary to hurt the dog and make it scream every time it is corrected, neither is it necessary to hurt a child and make her cry every time she is corrected.

And yes the child needs enough of a spanking if you use the right tool like God said you will only need a few wacks and it need not be forsefull since the tool will cause a sting at any strength used. I remember the book saying that if you use a switch if the child tightens his buttocks the sting will be greater, if you use any other tool it isn't effective, it is more blunt, so the child wins. How much pressure you use will depend on the age of the child. That is where you do not understand Gods word on why the rod or switch is to be used. A belt, paddle or wooden spoon is too WIDE therefore you need more forse which could cause too much pain and bruising or welts. Hey argue with GOD NOT ME I didn't write these things in the bible he did. the problem with spanking isn't Gods word or the tool he suggest it that most people DO IT WRONG !

Great, a crash course in how to hurt another person with minimal exertion and without leaving tell-tale marks. That is more than a little disturbing.

Glad your kids turned out ok, but it is not necessarily because you spanked them frequently. There are plenty of kids who turn out ok who aren't spanked at all. This is for a couple of reasons--both related to the fact that the chief motivating factor in human relationships is not the avoidance of pain. First, people are sociable, so they are inclined to do things that will please others. Secondly, it is the whole framework of discipline that is important (clear rules, consistency, and a relationship of love between the parent and child). Sometimes discipline succeeds in turning out a good child in spite of spanking when it is excessive or enforcing stupid rules.

I really don't understand the aggressive pro-spanking attitude. If the kid needs spanked, spank him. If he needs to be scolded, grounded, or have his computer privileges taken away, do that instead. Spanking is not a magic cure-all. As long as parents are teaching their kids what is right, what right do you have to come bursting in calling other Christians wishy-washy namby-pamby liberals for not pulling out the switch every time little Jane sets one foot wrong?

 

[Roguelet]

Petrel wrote

Obviously I know how it is done, since I just explained it to you. It is not necessary to hurt the dog and make it scream every time it is corrected, neither is it necessary to hurt a child and make her cry every time she is corrected.

Your words not mine, Scream, Cry, Hurt....?
Correct discipline in the child or animal doesn't produce extrems. Nothing wrong with a few tears, nothing wrong with a " Little " pain to teach. Put your hand on a stove it will hurt and you will think twice before doing that again.

Again GOD IS WRONG and you Petrel ~ Texassky are right !

2 Sam 7:14 I WILL BE HIS FATHER. AND HE SHALL BE MY SON. IF HE COMMIT INIQUITY, I WILL CHASTEN HIM WITH THE ROD OF MEN, AND WITH THE STRIPS OF THE CHILDREN OF MEN.

Prov. 13:24 HE THAT SPARETH HIS ROD HATESTH HIS SON: BUT HE THAT LOVESTH HIM CHASTENS HIM BETIMES

Prov 22:15 FOOLISHNESS IS BOUND IN THE HEART OF A CHILD; BUT THE ROD OF CORRECTION SHALL DRIVE IT FAR FROM HIM.

Prov 23:13-14 WITHHOLD NOT CORRECTION FROM THE CHILD: FOR IF THOU BEATEST HIM WITH THE ROD ( no other instrument ) HE SHALL NOT DIE. THOU SHALT BEAT HIM WITH THE ROD AND SHALT DELIVER HIS SOUL FROM HELL.

Prov. 29:15 THE ROD AND REPROOF GIVE WISDOM:BUT A CHILD LEFT TO HIMSELF BRINGETH HIS MOTHER TO SHAME.