It's fashionable to drape oneself in futuristic garb nowadays. So let me say I don't like the name Preterist for the idea of it. I'm not Dispentationalist for the fear of it. I think I'll rather call meself Proposterist not for being preposterous, but for believing the Everlasting Gospel - Future, as well as Past - of which Jesus Christ not only is the Fulfiller, but the Fullness.
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Do you believe in the Rapture and Why? Why not?
- Thread starter TaliOrlando
- Start date
DeafPosttrib
New Member
The true definition word for rapture means, highly emotional and feelings. It is not the meaning of caught up.
Early Church Fathers never use term - 'rapture', because it was not yet introduce to Church history for many centuries.
Till year1830 , Britian teenager Maraget MacDonald claims, she saw vision of caught up two times in gap period. Her vision created into split comings. That how pretribulation rapture doctrine was born.
Because, her church were in heavily pentacostal movment, doing healings, miralces, speaking in tongues, visions, etc. Her pastor named Edward Iriving, he was pastor of Apostlic Catholic Church.
Obivously, that church was invloved with high emotions, that how the word "rapture" comes from.
There is no word, 'rapture' find in the Bible.
Rapture is a man-making doctrine. It caused churches into divisions, caused them into confusions, misunderstanding, and strifes.
John Darby was from Great Britian. No doubt, I am sure that he heard testimony of Maraget MacDonald's testimony on her vision of rapture. That how he traveled to America and Canada 6 times during in year between 1840's to 1870's. Trying to spreading his new doctrines to churches. That how pretribulation rapture doctrine was born in the late 19th Century after 1888 Nigara Bible Conference declared of pretribulation rapture doctrine as "Statement of Faith."
But, pretribulation doctrine was not yet popular in Americas during late 19th Century.
By at the dawn of 20th century, C.I, Scofield was so very aggressive and zealous developed 'Dispensationalism' doctrine. He did traveled acorss America lot, and taught it in Bible college. By in year around 1920's, many Bible college added Pretribulation in colleges' Statement of faith. That how, pretribulation doctrine become very popular fast during 1920's to today.
Early Church do believe in "caught up" or "gathering together" at Christ's coming. There were much overwhelmed facts that, Early Church taught one future coming always include with gathering together at same time. There was no split comings teachings in their period.
I do believe in "caught up" & "gathering together" will be happen for sure. But, I do not like to use "rapture" in English dictionary word for high emotion. That word is a wrong definition for caught up.
You should be realize that, there are so MANY Assembly of God & Pentacostal churches are teaching on pretribulation rapture.
EVEN, with TBN do mentioned on pretribulation.
Why? Because they LOVE rapture make them exciting, not want to face sufferings of tribulations and persecutions, they want to escape from coming tribulations. Also, the reason why many churches are teaching on pretribulation, because of make lot of money instead of telling the truths from Bible.
That sad.
I believe, our gathering together/caught up will be follow at Christ's coming(second advent) same time according as what the Bible actual saying.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Early Church Fathers never use term - 'rapture', because it was not yet introduce to Church history for many centuries.
Till year1830 , Britian teenager Maraget MacDonald claims, she saw vision of caught up two times in gap period. Her vision created into split comings. That how pretribulation rapture doctrine was born.
Because, her church were in heavily pentacostal movment, doing healings, miralces, speaking in tongues, visions, etc. Her pastor named Edward Iriving, he was pastor of Apostlic Catholic Church.
Obivously, that church was invloved with high emotions, that how the word "rapture" comes from.
There is no word, 'rapture' find in the Bible.
Rapture is a man-making doctrine. It caused churches into divisions, caused them into confusions, misunderstanding, and strifes.
John Darby was from Great Britian. No doubt, I am sure that he heard testimony of Maraget MacDonald's testimony on her vision of rapture. That how he traveled to America and Canada 6 times during in year between 1840's to 1870's. Trying to spreading his new doctrines to churches. That how pretribulation rapture doctrine was born in the late 19th Century after 1888 Nigara Bible Conference declared of pretribulation rapture doctrine as "Statement of Faith."
But, pretribulation doctrine was not yet popular in Americas during late 19th Century.
By at the dawn of 20th century, C.I, Scofield was so very aggressive and zealous developed 'Dispensationalism' doctrine. He did traveled acorss America lot, and taught it in Bible college. By in year around 1920's, many Bible college added Pretribulation in colleges' Statement of faith. That how, pretribulation doctrine become very popular fast during 1920's to today.
Early Church do believe in "caught up" or "gathering together" at Christ's coming. There were much overwhelmed facts that, Early Church taught one future coming always include with gathering together at same time. There was no split comings teachings in their period.
I do believe in "caught up" & "gathering together" will be happen for sure. But, I do not like to use "rapture" in English dictionary word for high emotion. That word is a wrong definition for caught up.
You should be realize that, there are so MANY Assembly of God & Pentacostal churches are teaching on pretribulation rapture.
EVEN, with TBN do mentioned on pretribulation.
Why? Because they LOVE rapture make them exciting, not want to face sufferings of tribulations and persecutions, they want to escape from coming tribulations. Also, the reason why many churches are teaching on pretribulation, because of make lot of money instead of telling the truths from Bible.
That sad.
I believe, our gathering together/caught up will be follow at Christ's coming(second advent) same time according as what the Bible actual saying.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
DeafPosttrib said:
GE
Amen Deafposttrib. As I understand your idea of 'rapture', I can agree, and would say it is at the coming of Christ all the graves will open and the dead shall be raised. Now think of all the dead of all the ages and the desert-dry earth rent asunder at every grave, and visualise as it were all the dead rushing in two different directions, some to the left of the Judgement Seat, and the others to the right hand side of the Judgement seat, and you must visualise storms and clouds of dust like this earth has never seen. I see it as were the dead like Adam recreated from the dust of the earth. One as it were see all these figures appear out of the clouds of dust to face God's last judgement. I never have been able to visualise from any Scripture those fabulously clad model angels rising up in white chariots of cloud to meet Jesus up in the heavens. That is not the picture in any Scripture.
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Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Do you believe in the rapture
I'm not sure what is meant by this question. I don't believe in a part-return of Jesus Christ where believers are caught up creating a cataclysmic episode in human history leading to the revealing of the Anti-Christ like you would see in movies like "Theif in the Night" books like the "Late Great Planet Earth" or "Left Behind". I believe that much of what is writen in Revelations has already occured with the destruction of Jerusalem, persecution of the Roman Emperors Nero and Titus (also anti christs) and the victory of the Church over the Roman Empire. Keep in mind Anti as in Anti-Christ is better understood to mean Another Christ Rather than against Christ as most understand the meaning today. Any object or person that replaces Christ is Anti-Christ and endangers the christian. The emperors definately attempted to do this by forcing christians to make sacrifices to the emperor and gave legal writs when they did. If they did not they would be killed or imprissoned.
Do I believe in a once and for all return of Jesus to gather his people. Yes. But I would be closer to believing this is the final judgement rather than an event before the tribulation which already occured. Do I believe in the resurection of the dead? Yes.
Further more I believe that an all out belief in the rapture as Darby and others indicated is dangerous. It makes the church look like God's paranthetical option to "by the way bring in the rest of the world" in a "church age" period. This causes current christians to unreservadly support the current nation of Israel though it is secular and not always on the side of righteousness. Which makes christianity uncomplete until the Jews as a nation has returned to the fold so to speak. I believe the church is the fulfillment of the Torah, the prophets, and all the others that have gone before.
"rapture checks" are fun but give a misleading impression of what God is doing in the world.
I'm not sure what is meant by this question. I don't believe in a part-return of Jesus Christ where believers are caught up creating a cataclysmic episode in human history leading to the revealing of the Anti-Christ like you would see in movies like "Theif in the Night" books like the "Late Great Planet Earth" or "Left Behind". I believe that much of what is writen in Revelations has already occured with the destruction of Jerusalem, persecution of the Roman Emperors Nero and Titus (also anti christs) and the victory of the Church over the Roman Empire. Keep in mind Anti as in Anti-Christ is better understood to mean Another Christ Rather than against Christ as most understand the meaning today. Any object or person that replaces Christ is Anti-Christ and endangers the christian. The emperors definately attempted to do this by forcing christians to make sacrifices to the emperor and gave legal writs when they did. If they did not they would be killed or imprissoned.
Do I believe in a once and for all return of Jesus to gather his people. Yes. But I would be closer to believing this is the final judgement rather than an event before the tribulation which already occured. Do I believe in the resurection of the dead? Yes.
Further more I believe that an all out belief in the rapture as Darby and others indicated is dangerous. It makes the church look like God's paranthetical option to "by the way bring in the rest of the world" in a "church age" period. This causes current christians to unreservadly support the current nation of Israel though it is secular and not always on the side of righteousness. Which makes christianity uncomplete until the Jews as a nation has returned to the fold so to speak. I believe the church is the fulfillment of the Torah, the prophets, and all the others that have gone before.
"rapture checks" are fun but give a misleading impression of what God is doing in the world.
Thinkingstuff,
You are right. The Apostolic Confession says what you are saying in briefest statement of Faith.
As to Israel, "He who denies that Christ has come in the flesh, is antichrist". Israel which the Church so supports, is antichrist as much as Islam is. People tend to forgive this.
I see Christ's coming not only as God's act of Redemption of his Elect, but at the same time as the last judgment upon the ungodly. As for Revelation, the plagues therein spoken of, is part of hell's punishment upon the wicked. It is part of the the last judgment, and follows immediately on Christ's second coming. The same applies to the last assault of the devil and his following against the New Jerusalem which came with Christ down from heaven at his secong coming.
You are right. The Apostolic Confession says what you are saying in briefest statement of Faith.
As to Israel, "He who denies that Christ has come in the flesh, is antichrist". Israel which the Church so supports, is antichrist as much as Islam is. People tend to forgive this.
I see Christ's coming not only as God's act of Redemption of his Elect, but at the same time as the last judgment upon the ungodly. As for Revelation, the plagues therein spoken of, is part of hell's punishment upon the wicked. It is part of the the last judgment, and follows immediately on Christ's second coming. The same applies to the last assault of the devil and his following against the New Jerusalem which came with Christ down from heaven at his secong coming.