Do you have an a priori against french ?

[Spear]

Hi brothers and sisters,

I want to have this discussion because i think human relations have to be based on honesty. If prefer to hear/read " i don't like french " than to wonder about this all the time, like something being strongly meant, but not really said.

I sometimes think some people easily take any occasion to reply me, adding " your country " " you french ". Criticizing something (not the nation, not all the american) is touchy, and sometimes replies are rude.

Is my opinion less important, does it have less value in yours, do i desserve less consideration because i'm not american, and mostly, french ?

I'm almost sure that if i had'nt written France on my nickname, some replies would be more quiet. I have the feeling some people take things more easily on the wrong side, are very susceptible, and then, aggressive.

I'm not whining, but yesterday, reading Winman message about the fact we never elected a black president, i was so disgusted i was close to unsubscribe from the board and leave.

So that you can get an idea of what is usually thought and meant about USA, i'll write a post here about general ideas about USA (i don't say these are true), and how things work in France, so that you get a better understanding of how you're being perceived, and how we live here.

 

[TC]

These debate forums get pretty heated at times. You have to have a really thick skin around here.

BTY, welcome to the Baptistboard. :wavey:

 

[Spear]

These debate forums get pretty heated at times. You have to have a really thick skin around here.

BTY, welcome to the Baptistboard. :wavey:

Thank you brother

 

[Revmitchell]

Hi brothers and sisters,

I want to have this discussion because i think human relations have to be based on honesty. If prefer to hear/read " i don't like french " than to wonder about this all the time, like something being strongly meant, but not really said.

There is no reason to assume anyone here does not like people form France.

I sometimes think some people easily take any occasion to reply me, adding " your country " " you french ". Criticizing something (not the nation, not all the american) is touchy, and sometimes replies are rude.

You need to remember that words on a post are absent voice reflection and often can be perceived other than what the author intended.

Is my opinion less important, does it have less value in yours, do i desserve less consideration because i'm not american, and mostly, french ?

It can be depending on whether the issue is strictly American.

I'm almost sure that if i had'nt written France on my nickname, some replies would be more quiet. I have the feeling some people take things more easily on the wrong side, are very susceptible, and then, aggressive.

And it is baseless assumptions like this that either get peoples feelings hurt or causes harsh reactions. Don't be a victim. It is your choice

I'm not whining, but yesterday, reading Winman message about the fact we never elected a black president, i was so disgusted i was close to unsubscribe from the board and leave.

Yes you are. I saw that post. I doubt he intended it to hurt your feelings and quite frankly I am puzzled that it did. But if you are going to speak on a sensitive issue like racism in America you better be ready to stand toe to toe and defend yourself.

So that you can get an idea of what is usually thought and meant about USA, i'll write a post here about general ideas about USA (i don't say these are true), and how things work in France, so that you get a better understanding of how you're being perceived, and how we live here.

Not to hurt your feelings any farther but this would only work to gain responses much like you have already been hurt by. I suggest you consider you responses and how they may be perceived by others as well.

 

[HankD]

Hi Spear,

If you get into any of the BB Debate rings you will probably get a bloody nose no matter where you are from.
Please don't take it personally (oops, isn't that what Brando said in the Godfather?).

Anyways, stand sideways, crouch and keep you hands up in front of your face and you should be OK.


HankD

 

[Johnv]

I think the stereotype is usually the other way around: That the French don't like Americans.

I have no problem with the French. I just had French Fries for lunch yesterday.

 

[Spear]

Hi Spear,

If you get into any of the BB Debate rings you will probably get a bloody nose no matter where you are from.

I just had French Fries for lunch yesterday.

I feel better now ! But don't eat too many of these

You need to remember that words on a post are absent voice reflection and often can be perceived other than what the author intended.

You are right Revmitchell. Not many use smileys or eyewinks (you included), so i have it hard to perceive if someone's kindly taunting me, or someone else, of if he/she's beating with a hammer

 

[matt wade]

You've come on this forum and bashed America by saying that we because we debate whether or not Obama is qualified to be President it has been the "fall of democracy". I was one of the people that brought up "your country" and questioned how we in America have fallen, yet the French riot on the streets and burn cars when they don't get their way.

I have no problem with the French in general. I do have a problem with people from other countries that criticize my country when their own is nothing but a mess.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Oil-for-food, anyone ?

Being against the war, I get particularly sickened when our troops get caught in multi-national political games. The truth is several French officials were caught in this scandal, and the U.S. was left hanging, trying to enforce a U.N. charter while the press was manipulated by the very people who weren't done getting rich off the Iraqi oil money.

The question should be, why do the French hate Americans ? You guys are still a sovereign nation in no small part thanks to us, yet American tourists literally won't get the time of day, even if they ask en Francais.....

 

[Johnv]

I have no problem with the French in general. I do have a problem with people from other countries that criticize my country when their own is nothing but a mess.

:applause::applause::applause::applause:

 

[Matt Black]

Well, if you want to talk about racial tolerance, we had a mixed-race Prime Minister as long ago as 1812...

 

[Winman]

I'm not whining, but yesterday, reading Winman message about the fact we never elected a black president, i was so disgusted i was close to unsubscribe from the board and leave.

So you didn't like what I said did you? Well, who was the first to bring up racism? You.

From here, your president is popular, he's young, and to be honest, many here wondered if USA would do it, and elect a black president, and yes, you did it, which puts an end to many " wonder if " about USA & colour questions.

Our president is very enthusiastic about USA, and seems to admire many things, often remembers officially the friendship between the nations, with the right to think differently. I agree with him on that. The matter here, is that some don't share that feeling.

Your quote suggests that your country believes America to be a very bigoted country. Europe especially seems to enjoy saying that about us. The truth is, Europe is and has been far more bigoted than the U.S. ever has. I work with many Europeans, and while they are nice people, I have found all of them to be bigoted against blacks. And they hate the Jews even more.

Yes, we had slavery here. But where did that originate? Europe. The world of the 19th century is much different than today. While America continues to have problems with race issues, no other country has done more to give freedom and equality to all peoples. This is why millions of people have and continue to come here.

So, I took your comment as an insult. I know of no country in Europe that has elected a black person as president. And while this is our first black president, we have had black people in powerful positions in government for many years, governors, senators, representatives, mayors...

I don't hate the French or any other people. But I do think the French are very quick to forget that America gave great aid and assistance to France in both WWI and WWII. It was the American and British (along with several other countries) invasion of D-Day that drove the Nazi's out of your country. But France is very quick to insult America and does so all the time.

A little gratitude would go a long way. And we'll be watching for you to elect a black President. OK?

 

[Spear]

I do have a problem with people from other countries that criticize my country when their own is nothing but a mess.

Can we be constructive ? I mean, can we honestly, and sincerely criticize each other and our respective countries so that we all can grow in knowledge and ideas, understand better.

Matt, by all i've written, do i look like a " proud french guy teaching lessons to US people " ? Maybe i typed things in a wrong way, making things too general or too strong, i'll be more careful, like RevdMitchell counsels.

I'm asking you directly the question : do you think i try deliberately to offend your country, or am mockering ?

You think " my country is a mess ", ... i'll let you say it and won't reply from now, you have the right to say it, i'll turn the other cheek. If you're inclined or willing to discuss it, i'm okay, if not, i won't argue.

:applause::applause::applause::applause:

He was good wasn't he ? I'm pleased you had a good time !

The question should be, why do the French hate Americans ? You guys are still a sovereign nation in no small part thanks to us, yet American tourists literally won't get the time of day, even if they ask en Francais.....

In Paris, it happens that when we're there to visit, that if we're lost, map in hands, and i see someone coming by, and i ask " Please ... " the person goes on without even watching or replying.

We don't hate americans. I think USA fascinates us in many things, good or bad.

A little gratitude would go a long way. And we'll be watching for you to elect a black President. OK?

Please, can anyone mention i explained what i meant, that is was great that black President was elected in USA ?

 

[Matt Black]

Parisians are rude to everyone. That's just them; Americans shoudn't take it personally.

 

[Winman]

Please, can anyone mention i explained what i meant, that is was great that black President was elected in USA ?

I understand completely that you think it is good that we would elect a black president. The insult was that you said the French were "watching" us to see if we would actually do it. You imply by this statement that the French believe us to be bigots.

I do not like President Obama. But it has nothing to do with the color of his skin. In that he is black, I am happy for all black Americans in that they have attained the highest office of the land. I am also proud of America because we are not the bigots people accuse us of, and this election proved that once and for all.

My reasons for not liking Obama are his political views. He is very much a socialist which I am against. He also supports abortion which I am against.

But I have nothing against him because he is black. If there were a good conservative black man who shares my values running for office, I would vote for him.

 

[Matt Black]

I don't hate the French or any other people. But I do think the French are very quick to forget that America gave great aid and assistance to France in both WWI and WWII. It was the American and British (along with several other countries) invasion of D-Day that drove the Nazi's out of your country. But France is very quick to insult America and does so all the time.

A little gratitude would go a long way.

And if it wasn't for Lafayette and Co, you guys would probably still be drinking tea and playing cricket not baseball... Fair exchange and all that...

 

[Winman]

And if it wasn't for Lafayette and Co, you guys would probably still be drinking tea and playing cricket not baseball... Fair exchange and all that...

That is just the point, America has shown great gratitude to France, by sending our young men and women to die on their soil for their freedom in both WWI and WWII. And what do we get in return? Insults.

 

[Matt Black]

Like I said, debt repaid; the balance is re-set. And like I also said, Parisians insult everyone; they are just plain grumpy so-and-so's.

 

[Spear]

I understand completely that you think it is good that we would elect a black president. The insult was that you said the French were "watching" us to see if we would actually do it.

Oh, i thought you were believing i am a racist who was reproaching you the election of a black president. I was sad.

How can i explain ... I support USA. I feel friendship, honestly, like with the british : first, stop on that sentence, and start to picture myself by " He's friendly, coming to me in a good attitude, with a good heart ", like if we were of the same country.

If we start on friendship basis, and you imagine one minute that it is true, you can imagine that i'm not judging or meaning to insult you. Is it possible ?

The matter is that i'm too honest and frank i think : i tell things how they're perceived here (remember HOW THEY ARE PERCEIVE, not HOW I PERCEIVE), and you react as if i was the ambassador of those things, which i am not.

About the election, to end with that, yes, some wondered if the colour could prevent a president from being elected, and yes i wondered how much it could block him from the POTUS status. And i am sure some american wondered too (just WONDER). Know it would have been the same here, with a candidate having African or North-african roots and colours, i'm sure it would have a consequence on some people's choice. I never advanced the fact we were better or would do better in electing someone.

You are a great nation, i don't think we're watching you, we're probably more following than watching you ... we have 1134 Mc Donald's ... more than 40 % of the french are in overweight (including me that time ) ... (i was JOKING !!!! PLEASE !!! Take it as a JOKE !!) and, we, baptists, are slowly but surely growing too (see my other post).

 

[sag38]

Personally, I've never been to France nor do I know any French people. So, I have no real opinion. Do I agree with socialism? No! Did I agree with France's stance post 9/11. No! Do I agree with Spear most of the time. NO!!!!! But, that doesn't mean I dislike him or French people in general. I also know that if it were not for France the reality of our becoming a new nation would have been much harder to secure.