This is nonsense. If God were still giving sign gifts, they would be everywhere and they are not. The only thing they are "moving in" is error away from the scripture.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Do You Know Any Charasmatic baptists In Your Church or Friends?
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
This is nonsense. If God were still giving sign gifts, they would be everywhere and they are not. The only thing they are "moving in" is error away from the scripture.
So ALL who believe in them that are reputable are plainly wrong?
NOT talking about WoF/Manifast sons/KIngdom now etc
Those like Dr wayne Grudem!
Really!?! Nonsense as per your opinion ....shakes head. "Quench not the Spirit brother 1 Thessalonians 5:19-21
you mean like this "communion" service?
THESE PEOPLE LIKE WAYNE GRUDEM AND jOHN PIPER
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK8avF2t6UY
oh no wait...you said they operate at home...like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRvvGiREXOU&NR=1
EWF
Really!?! Nonsense as per your opinion ....shakes head. "Quench not the Spirit brother 1 Thessalonians 5:19-21
This is the wrong spirit......this is blasphemous nonsense.
Last edited by a moderator:
Please stick to the"reputable" Christians in this, not the fakes and heretics!
JF,
Where are the reputable ones? Everyone cops out when they are called on this garbage....I could put up hundreds of these...because there are no reputable ones..... Grudem and Piper do not even claim these "supposed" gifts, they just open the door to many.
Everyone holds out for the prayer tongue, lol.....this is nonsense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU9lZD7qB7s&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K08OKQJIwYw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxsd6mmMqes&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO6R1zVCw1M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omy24KC3LzU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSCuY7jyoTs&feature=related
Which one if false??
Whether they call themselves Baptist or not, Charismatics are completely unwelcome in my church. Three times in my ministry I've had trouble with these people. Once they stole members. Another group tried to steal sheep and failed when God helped me confront the threat. The third time they baptized a family of our believers in their bathtub, got the wife to speak in tongues and then wondered why I was upset. That family also left our church.
There are so many things wrong with the Charismatic movement it's hard to know where to start. Try unbiblical tongues (tongues are just ordinary languages in the NT), unbiblical "healing," "manifest sons of God" theology, "word of faith" heresy, "health and wealth" false Gospel, ad infinitum ad nauseum.
The Charismatics have caused chaos on other mission fields of the world as well as in Japan. Read the articles by Loren Davis about the chaos Charismatics have caused in Africa: http://www.lorendavis.com/articles.html. I don't know Loren Davis and am not endorsing his ministry here, but his accounts are shocking and very sad.
There are so many things wrong with the Charismatic movement it's hard to know where to start. Try unbiblical tongues (tongues are just ordinary languages in the NT), unbiblical "healing," "manifest sons of God" theology, "word of faith" heresy, "health and wealth" false Gospel, ad infinitum ad nauseum.
The Charismatics have caused chaos on other mission fields of the world as well as in Japan. Read the articles by Loren Davis about the chaos Charismatics have caused in Africa: http://www.lorendavis.com/articles.html. I don't know Loren Davis and am not endorsing his ministry here, but his accounts are shocking and very sad.
Last edited by a moderator:
Rather my examples would be Dr. john Owen, and if ever there was a man who was by nature an intellectual and a calm and controlled man but he also describes this -- "unspeakable rapture of the mind" , gladness, exultations-- something beyond description.
Or let me quote you his contemporary, Dr. Thomas Goodwin, another bright shining star in this spiritual firmament, a man like Owen. Owen taught at Oxford. Goodwin taught at both Oxford & Cambridge. he writes
" there is a light that cometh & overpowereth a man's soul and assureth him that God is his and he is God's, and that God loveth him everlasting... it is a light beyond the light of ordinary faith. "
Needless to say.... these men did not run around like drunken idiots.
Or let me quote you his contemporary, Dr. Thomas Goodwin, another bright shining star in this spiritual firmament, a man like Owen. Owen taught at Oxford. Goodwin taught at both Oxford & Cambridge. he writes
" there is a light that cometh & overpowereth a man's soul and assureth him that God is his and he is God's, and that God loveth him everlasting... it is a light beyond the light of ordinary faith. "
Needless to say.... these men did not run around like drunken idiots.
Last edited by a moderator:
Out of curiosity John, are Calvinist welcome? Lastly, who's church is it?
owen or goodwin were not speaking about this that we see posted here.
Sure, as long as they don't cause trouble. :smilewinkgrin: One of my greatest supporters and friends is a Calvinist I've known and loved for almost 40 years.
But they both believed in the power of the Holy Spirit....beyond the boundaries you impose.
I have John Owen's book on the Holy Spirit, I have books by Charismatics on the Holy Spirit, and I've known and dealt directly with Charismatics. I guarantee you that Owens and Charismatics could not be further apart on the doctrine of the Holy Spirit.
But yet they have all had experiences with the HS above & beyond their regeneration experiences.... would they have been considered Charismatics today? Would D. L Moody---look up his testimony, would Wesley--look up his, would Whitefield OK I will give you one Jonathan Edwards & If you cant find it, rest assured that I will make the effort. Again I caution you, no scripture cautions not to Quench the HS.
I do believe in the fullness of the Holy Spirit for the work of God in the same tradition as Moody and R. A. Torrey. One of the most helpful books for my ministry I ever read was The Holy Spirit: Who He Is and What He Does by Torrey. Again, Torrey's pamphlet, Why God Used D. L. Moody, is excellent.
My grandfather's books on the Holy Spirit are in the same vein, in particular The Power of Pentecost or the Fullness of the Spirit. In fact, though Granddad was a Baptist he used to invite the Pentecostals to participate in his city-wide campaigns back in the '40's and '50s with the caveat that they would not talk about tongues and he would not preach about Baptism. This was before the Charismatic mess started in the '60's.
Where you are mistaken is that you're mixing up the original Pentecostal tradition which started at the Azusa Street Revival in 1906, and the modern Charismatic movement, which didn't begin until the early '60s. Harold Bredesen coined the term in 1962.
How the Charismatic Movement began by penetrating main line churches and spreading tongues doctrine (splitting many churches) is well documented by Richard Quebedeux in The New Charismatics. The old line Pentecostals don't believe in many things the Charismatics think are important: ecumenicalism (Pentecostals are separatists), "word of faith," "health and wealth," etc.
Furthermore, the heretical Charismatic doctrine of the "manifest sons of God" got the proto-Charismatics kicked out of the Church of God back in the '40s, I believe. (Don't have the details at hand right now.)
For perspective for you, I highly recommend Charismatic Chaos, by Calvinist John MacArthur. Or if you want a book by an old line Pentecostal, try Charismatism: Awakening or Apostasy? by O. Talmadge Spence.
Last edited by a moderator:
We used to have a yearly meeting in both England and Canada called the Keswick Camp. It was a place where we especially waited upon God the Holy Spirit to fill us and change us to meet His demands on us.
These were many different churches, but there was no tongues, etc., common to charismatics.
What I am saying is that seeking spiritual blessings was not absent from the basic denominations. We didn't leave everything to the charismatics.
Cheers,
Jim
These were many different churches, but there was no tongues, etc., common to charismatics.
What I am saying is that seeking spiritual blessings was not absent from the basic denominations. We didn't leave everything to the charismatics.
Cheers,
Jim
Very true, Brother Jim. The Keswick Movement was entirely separate from the Pentecostals and Charismatics, yet believed in an important experience of the Holy Spirit past salvation.
Would say there there are genuine Charasmatics, in sense hold to real Gospel and Real jesus, add 'distinctives" in their theology, BUT definitly cultic/heritical groups like Word of faith/prosperity. Kingdom Now etc!
Old line pentaclostals in say assemblies of God would severly disagree witht those "frindge/heretical" groups epousing in Charasmatic ranks!
Last edited by a moderator:
"good" ones are those like in traditional pentacostal circles, like Assemblies of God, "bad" ones aare indeed those teaching/adhering to heretical nonseanse as in WOF, Kingdom Now. manifest sons of God, health and wealth, positive confession etc
Check statements of beliefs of say assemblies of God, do disagree with them on Sotierology as they are classicical Arms, and in second act of grace, but pretty much Evangelical, with their distinctives...
Great point!