Do You Know That You Are Saved?

[standingfirminChrist]

The Scripture puts people into two distinct categories:

1) a servant of sin unto death
2) a servant of obedience unto righteousness

Surely you don't think suicide is being obedient to Christ unto righteousness?

 

[tinytim]

If you commit suicide, you are dead...
If you died lost, you are in Hell.
If you died saved, you are in Heaven.

YOu know what, I'm tired of telling you this... go ahead, and beleive that you have more power than Christ's blood. But just remember... Lucifer said thought that he was stronger than God also. Look what happened to him.

I know I am weak... I have to ask forgiveness daily... I know if it wasn't for Christ's blood, I would go to Hell... I deserve Hell... But praise God, Jesus died for my sins... and now I can go to Heaven...

But if you want to believe anything else... I've done my part, I can't convince you ...that is God's job... I just have to present Jesus and Him crucified.

 

[rbell]

The Scripture puts people into two distinct categories:

1) a servant of sin unto death
2) a servant of obedience unto righteousness

Surely you don't think suicide is being obedient to Christ unto righteousness?

The Scripture puts people into two distinct categories:
1) Saved.
2) Lost.

I'll let God handle that one. He doesn't need my help, nor SFIC's.

 

[webdog]

The Scripture puts people into two distinct categories:
1) Saved.
2) Lost.

I'll let God handle that one. He doesn't need my help, nor SFIC's.

As Ed would say...Amen brother rbell, Preach it!:thumbs:

 

[Mexdeaf]

Somehow reading this thread brought to mind the old saw about some people's minds being like concrete- thoroughly mixed up and firmly set.:laugh:

 

[Martin]

Suicide is sin and will not be found in the true believer. If one commits sin, the scripture says that one is the servant of sin. A Christian, will not be a servant of sin unto death, but rather a servant of obedience unto righteousness.

==Of course Romans 6:16-19 is not talking about one act of sin. Through out the whole chapter Paul is talking about how believers will "walk in newness of life" (vs4). Paul also instructs believers not to "let sin reign" in their bodies (vs12) and for them not to continue "presenting the members of your body to sin" (vs13). In verse 15 Paul asks a question, "shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace?". Paul answers that question in the negative and then goes on to explain how we were slaves to sin and now we are to slaves to God. Paul goes on in chapter 7 to discuss how even believers struggle with the flesh (Rom 7:14-25, Gal 5:16-18). No one act of sin proves a person is not saved, nor does one act of sin prove a person was not saved to start with. The Bible does label people in sinful lifestyles as lost, but not one sin. The reason Scripture labels those who live in sin as lost is not because of their sin but rather what their pattern of sin means. It means they are not born of God (1Jn 3:9-10).

If one is disobedient, and kills one's self, the Word of God says the 'wrath of God is upon the children of disobedience'.

==Actually Scripture never directly links suicide with murder and it certainly does not say that if someone kills themselves they are automatically under the wrath of God. While I don't doubt suicide is a horrible, vile sin, I don't find a verse of Scripture that links it directly to murder (as if they are one and the same). If a person is a Christian they can never fall under the wrath of God. If a person is unsaved it does not matter how they die they are under the wrath of God.

 

[skypair]

No man can serve two masters. One who submits to the flesh is not serving Christ. One who submits to Christ is no longer a servant to sin. If I killed myself, I certainly would not be serving Christ, nor bringing glory and honor to His name. Nor would I be continuing in Him (Col. 1), Keeping His commandments (1 John 2), or walking in the Light (1 John 1).

I would be in darkness, and a liar as His Word proclaims.

That's a PARABLE, Standing. No man serves ANY master 100% of the time. When you had a job, did you go home from work?? Have some time to "refuel" away from your workplace?? Sure you did! You might even have held down 2 jobs without it ever impacting the service you gave to either and the love that you gave to your own family. Was it then possible to do both well?? Did you hate one and love the other? Did you hate your family and love your job?? It's a parable, Standing. Don't bend it out of shape!

And what is "repentance" under the paradigm you offer but crucifying Christ thousands of times over again (so He will save you again) and "putting Him to an open shame?"

...

Reading some of your other posts makes me want to ask this question: Would you agree that there are a lot of bipolar individuals in the world? They commit suicide, Standing, because they are mentally insane at the time. Is that accounted for sin unto death?? or disease unto death?? are they insane because they are not saved? or not saved because they are lunatics when they died?? I don't understand your "stand" even on this issue.

skypair

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I am through with this subject. You may continue to give license to sin and disobedience all you wish. But I believe for every one who you mislead into thinking they still are going to go to heaven even if they do break His commandment 'Thou shalt not kill', God will hold you responsible. Their blood will be on your hands.

 

[skypair]

I am through with this subject. You may continue to give license to sin and disobedience all you wish. But I believe for every one who you mislead into thinking they still are going to go to heaven even if they do break His commandment 'Thou shalt not kill', God will hold you responsible. Their blood will be on your hands.

And you as well, sir.

And their "blood," their sin, is already on the body of Christ at the cross -- not "on them" or "on me." Deny that and you deny Christ.

This is not an inconsequential error you make, standing. You are standing for salvation based on your own works -- sins of commission and ommission (ommitting to acknowledge the truth of Scripture)!

If you can't discuss the topic anymore, then I suggest you have reached the end of your knowledge of the subject and would rather save face than find the truth. I understand that -- I'm an old man myself. But that is no excuse in heaven.

skypair

 

[Diggin in da Word]

And you as well, sir.

And their "blood," their sin, is already on the body of Christ at the cross -- not "on them" or "on me." Deny that and you deny Christ.

This is not an inconsequential error you make, standing. You are standing for salvation based on your own works -- sins of commission and ommission (ommitting to acknowledge the truth of Scripture)!

If you can't discuss the topic anymore, then I suggest you have reached the end of your knowledge of the subject and would rather save face than find the truth. I understand that -- I'm an old man myself. But that is no excuse in heaven.

skypair

I don't believe sfiC has reached the end of his knowledge on the subject, I believe he may have just figgered out the truth. That people refust to accept the truth that is written in God's Word.

Let me ask a question that sfiC may not have asked...

If suicide does not break the commandment suicide, if it does not mean that one has not held fast to faith in the hope of the gospel (Jesus Christ), where does it fall?

 

[DQuixote]

Well, goodness. What started off as a nice thread quickly got garbaged.

Anyway................

I'm with you, Martin ----

EXCEPT when you do not speak well of MY MAN Charles Ryrie! :laugh: :1_grouphug: :tongue3:

 

[rbell]

I am through with this subject. You may continue to give license to sin and disobedience all you wish. But I believe for every one who you mislead into thinking they still are going to go to heaven even if they do break His commandment 'Thou shalt not kill', God will hold you responsible. Their blood will be on your hands.

It's a shame that someone like yourself, who could offer such maturity to discussions on the BB, consistently resort to such childish attacks.

Mature Christians can disagree without throwing out invectives such as:

• "You obviously don't believe God's Word."
• Insinuating other Christians "promote" suicide, just because we don't believe it is an automatic ticket to hell.
• Charging others with being "soft" on sin...even when those people meticulously explain that they believe sin to be an affront to a holy God.
• Questioning the salvation of other believers.
• When corrected about the questioning of others' salvation, responding with, "Well, I've seen moderators do it."
• Claiming that other believers will be guilty of murder simply because we disagree that one can commit suicide and still go to heaven if he/she is saved.
• Ignoring the fact that no one in these discussion has argued that suicide is right, normal, or in God's will for any person.

Mature Christians realize that there are non-negotiables, but that there will never be 100.00000000000% theological agreement between Christian brothers, and that every single thing ain't essential.

Mature Christians have mature discussions.

SFIC, grow up.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Mature Christians will also not give license to suicide by telling people if they commit suicide they can go to heaven.

Suicide is breaking one of God's ten comandments and you are telling them they can break his commandments.

Wrong!

 

[tinytim]

If suicide does not break the commandment suicide, if it does not mean that one has not held fast to faith in the hope of the gospel (Jesus Christ), where does it fall?

Can you reword this?... I think you mis=typed. "break the commandment suicide"

 

[rbell]

Mature Christians will also not give license to suicide by telling people if they commit suicide they can go to heaven.

Suicide is breaking one of God's ten comandments and you are telling them they can break his commandments.

Wrong!

How about getting it right.

I'm not condoning suicide.

Coveting is one of God's ten commandments. I'm not telling anyone to covet either.

Good grief.

 

[tinytim]

Mature Christians will also not give license to suicide by telling people if they commit suicide they can go to heaven.

Suicide is breaking one of God's ten comandments and you are telling them they can break his commandments.

Wrong!

Noone is saying Suicide is OK... show me anywhere where anyone did.
What we are saying is, Jesus Christ died for all of our sins....

Do you deny that?
Are you willing to say that you can do anything to break the seal of the Holy Spirit?
Are you saying you are stronger than Christ's blood?

If a true Christian commits Suicide he will go to Heaven... not because of what he did, or didn't do, but because, we are clothed in Christ's righteousness.

 

[Martin]

Mature Christians will also not give license to suicide by telling people if they commit suicide they can go to heaven.

Suicide is breaking one of God's ten comandments and you are telling them they can break his commandments.

Let's calm down a bit here and try to have a serious theological discussion. Nobody here is giving anyone a "license to suicide" nor is anyone saying "they can break his commandments". Those are emotionally heated words that have no basis in fact. Let's deal with the facts presented and not with emotionally heated words. Mature Christians deal with facts even when they disagree.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

How about getting it right.

I'm not condoning suicide.

Coveting is one of God's ten commandments. I'm not telling anyone to covet either.

Good grief.

By telling one they will still go to heaven, you are condoning suicide.

 

[Martin]

Well, goodness. What started off as a nice thread quickly got garbaged.

==Yeah, that happens. I think it usually happens because someone does not understand the issue, uses emotional charged phases, or does not bother to read what others are actually saying. Don't know what the case is here.

EXCEPT when you do not speak well of MY MAN Charles Ryrie!

==Ryrie is not that far off base. However I take issue with some things he said in "So Great Salvation". Ryrie is, however, a great scholar/teacher.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

I notice sfiC was talking respectfully in the room. Then tim and others came in and changed the conversation by their attacks.