Do You Know That You Are Saved?

[christianyouth]

I completley agree with your interpretation of this text. Honestly, what determined how one would understand this text would be one's presuppositions.So, if you went into this book with the preconcieved notion that one can be saved without having visible fruits of holiness, repentance, and the such, then you would read into this text your presuppositions, and the result would be poor biblical interpretation.


Thanks for the post, I enjoyed it!

-Andy

 

[Martin]

Honestly, what determined how one would understand this text would be one's presuppositions.So, if you went into this book with the preconcieved notion that one can be saved without having visible fruits of holiness, repentance, and the such, then you would read into this text your presuppositions, and the result would be poor biblical interpretation.

Andy, I honestly believe that is one of the most insightful comments I have read on that in a long time. It is simple, and I suppose rather obvious, but I think we often forget that each person carries certain biases to every text they read. If that bias is that John is saying "that one can be saved without having visible fruits of holiness, repentance, and the such, then you would read into this text your presuppositions, and the result would be poor biblical interpretation".

 

[bound]

I completley agree with your interpretation of this text. Honestly, what determined how one would understand this text would be one's presuppositions.So, if you went into this book with the preconcieved notion that one can be saved without having visible fruits of holiness, repentance, and the such, then you would read into this text your presuppositions, and the result would be poor biblical interpretation.

-Andy

Grace and Peace christianyouth,

Would you agree that the example of the Good Thief points to 'one can be saved without having visible fruits of holiness, repentance, and the such'?

I recognize that he's repentant but I person laying in a bed unable to move or talk could be repentant as well and yet give no 'visible signs'.

Someone with a better memory might be able to help me out but isn't there a verse in the Bible which states that 'God judges hearts' and 'not like we do'?

"If you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." – Romans 10:9-10

Thanks!

 

[rbell]

Someone with a better memory might be able to help me out but isn't there a verse in the Bible which states that 'God judges hearts' and 'not like we do'?

Thanks!

is this it?

1 Samuel 16:7 -- But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

 

[bound]

is this it?

YOU THE MAN! :thumbs:

 

[christianyouth]

Grace and Peace christianyouth,

Would you agree that the example of the Good Thief points to 'one can be saved without having visible fruits of holiness, repentance, and the such'?

I recognize that he's repentant but I person laying in a bed unable to move or talk could be repentant as well and yet give no 'visible signs'.

Someone with a better memory might be able to help me out but isn't there a verse in the Bible which states that 'God judges hearts' and 'not like we do'?

"If you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." – Romans 10:9-10

Thanks!

Yeah, I understand where you are coming from now.

See, some scripture verses say, "repent and believe" , others say "believe and be baptized," and some say " believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and ye shall be saved." So, its pretty complicated from that perspective.

I honestly cannot interpret Romans10:9-10 , to me those verses do not make much sense when I cross-reference them with the rest of Scripture. It seems like Paul is saying "say out loud that Jesus Christ is Lord, and then convince yourself to believe that Jesus is the son of God who bore your sins, and then you can go to heaven."

I just cannot reconcile those verses with the sermons that Peter preached to unrepentant sinners.

-Andy

 

[Amy.G]

Yeah, I understand where you are coming from now.

See, some scripture verses say, "repent and believe" , others say "believe and be baptized," and some say " believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and ye shall be saved." So, its pretty complicated from that perspective.

I honestly cannot interpret Romans10:9-10 , to me those verses do not make much sense when I cross-reference them with the rest of Scripture. It seems like Paul is saying "say out loud that Jesus Christ is Lord, and then convince yourself to believe that Jesus is the son of God who bore your sins, and then you can go to heaven."
I just cannot reconcile those verses with the sermons that Peter preached to unrepentant sinners.

-Andy

Hi Andy, maybe this will help you understand. First, remember what Jesus said, Matthew 12:34 "brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks."
We speak what's in our heart. So, when we confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord, we are speaking from the heart. We know that it is a true confession because, "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Belief and confession are both required. Look at one of the greatest confessions made, "and Thomas answered and said to Him, "my Lord and my God". That is not just words. He believed that Jesus was God and then he confessed it with his mouth. Confession is the evidence of belief. Our words reveal what is in our hearts. Hope that made sense.

 

[Martin]

Would you agree that the example of the Good Thief points to 'one can be saved without having visible fruits of holiness, repentance, and the such'?

==No, I would not agree. That person who has been born again will have "visible fruits of holiness, repentance, and the such". Now in the case of those who do get saved on their death bed and may die within minutes, hours, or days, they too have a changed life. Now it may show up in very different ways. Their 'fear' of death may be replaced by 'peace', they may show a greater interest in the Scriptures, or something like that. If the person's heart has been changed then something in their behavior will change. The theif on the cross turned to Christ and was no longer insulting Christ. Instead of insults he began to defend Christ against the other theif. That sounds like a change to me, that sounds like fruit. A person who gets saved on their deathbed may not be able to go on a mission trip, attend church, or lead a Bible study, but they will still show signs of being born of God.

I know the question was not directed towards me but I could not resist.