do you like Robert Jeffress?

[Calminian]

I'm not sure the Christians in my church who dislike President Trump are intentionally claiming the moral high ground. But I think they're stuck in the old paradigm that a Republican who promises to pursue Christian-friendly policies must be virtuous and a Christian himself. Of note to me is that the people I heard grumbling about him are senior citizens.

I'm actually of the opinion that he's likely not saved, yet, but seems to be changing more and more every day. I think God is drawing him. I hope so.

That said, It's irrelevant to me if a government official is a Christian or not. Some Christians make terrible governing authorities, and some unbelievers actually follow God's plan for governments better than many believers. I'll never vote in accordance with identity. It's all about what they do.

 

[church mouse guy]

No one said a word when one of the richest Episcopal churches in the United States put a statue of the Holy Family in a dog kennel here on Monument Circle in downtown Indianapolis--the left can make all the political statements they like through their churches even if they tell lies such as the Holy Family were illegal immigrants or homeless, etc. I don't always agree with Jefferies on Fox, but I think that he should be president of the SBC and not the new one we have now who did a thesis in an SBC seminary on how we worship Allah correctly and the Muslims worship him incorrectly. Everyone knew that Trump was a playboy and no one cared because no one cared when it was revealed that Clinton is a serial rapist or that Obama is a liar or that Carter supports same-sex marriage and hates Israel except when they gave him life-saving medicine for his brain disease.

 

[rlvaughn]

I'm actually of the opinion that he's likely not saved...

I agree. I see no evidence that Trump is a Christian. Which makes it all the more interesting that he seems to be a better friend of Christian interests than many so-called Christian politicians. He somehow got to a strong stand against abortion (which appears to be quite recent, actually), and he is committed to appointing judges who interpret the Constitution rather than their own interests.

That said, It's irrelevant to me if a government official is a Christian or not. Some Christians make terrible governing authorities...[

And we Baptists don't have a great record in the White House. Think Carter & Clinton.

 

[Calminian]

...And we Baptists don't have a great record in the White House. Think Carter & Clinton.

Wow! What a thought.

 

[church mouse guy]

I think that he goes on TV too much. He was on about Kavanaugh last week, which is a minor issue at this time.

 

[InTheLight]

Don't know much about him except that he's a Trump apologist. However, I just saw his quote about Ronald Reagan and I've decided I don't like him.

When discussing the Stormy Daniels incident as well as the other sexual allegations against Trump Jeffress said, "We've been here before. Back in 1980 evangelicals chose to support twice married, Hollywood actor, who was a known womanizer, his name was Ronald Reagan. The reason we supported Ronald Reagan was not because of his womanizing, we supported his policies."​

 

[Calminian]

Don't know much about him except that he's a Trump apologist. However, I just saw his quote about Ronald Reagan and I've decided I don't like him.

When discussing the Stormy Daniels incident as well as the other sexual allegations against Trump Jeffress said, "We've been here before. Back in 1980 evangelicals chose to support twice married, Hollywood actor, who was a known womanizer, his name was Ronald Reagan. The reason we supported Ronald Reagan was not because of his womanizing, we supported his policies."​

Absolutely true. Reagan was the divorced Hollywood actor running against the faithful Southern Baptist Sunday School teacher in Jimmy Carter. Reagan was a pro-abortion pro-divorce democrat who flip-flopped on those issues when he became a Republican. Falwell Sr. caught all kinds of grief for supporting Reagan, much like his son caught grief for supporting Trump. 2016 was 1980 all over again. No doubt in my mind you would have boycotted Reagan (and his astrology obsessed pagan 2nd wife) on the very same grounds you boycotted Trump.

 

[InTheLight]

Absolutely true. Reagan was the divorced Hollywood actor running against the faithful Southern Baptist Sunday School teacher in Jimmy Carter.

Yes, Reagan was divorced, once. This happened in 1948. His ex-wife, Jane Wyman, remained friendly with him, even voted for him a couple of times. He got remarried to Nancy Davis in 1952. He ran against Carter 32 years after his divorce.

Trump has been divorced twice and married three times. Trump's first divorce came about when he was carrying on a public affair with model Marla Maples. Trump and Maples got married in 1993; divorced in 1997. We all know about the Access Hollywood tape, the sexual assault allegations, the lewd interviews on Howard Stern's show, the Stormy Daniels payoff. My point is there is no comparison between Trump's continually being dogged by stories of sexual indiscretions and Reagan's one divorce and subsequent solid, faithful marriage to Nancy.

No doubt in my mind you would have boycotted Reagan (and his astrology obsessed pagan 2nd wife) on the very same grounds you boycotted Trump.

Good to see your mind reading skills are still in tip-top shape!

 

[Calminian]

Yes, Reagan was divorced, once. ....Trump has been divorced twice and married three times. ....!

I didn't realize there was such a gulf between being married twice and divorced once, and married thrice and divorced twice. And just like Reagan, Trump has managed to stay friends with Ivanna who supported him and voted for him. So I really fail to see the chasm you're describing.

And you glossed over the flip-flopping part. Reagan did a 180 on abortion. In fact he supported abortion legislation in CA as a democrat governor. You're trying to tell me that wouldn't have been an issue with you?

The way I look at it both Reagan and Trump were flawed human beings with failed marriages, and liberal histories. And I serious don't know the true spiritual condition of either. I don't know for sure if Reagan was a born again believer. He might have been, just as Trump might be now.

But in regard to their politics, they have my vote, as they seem to understand God's purpose for government better than many believing doctrinally sound candidates do. That's why both enjoyed wide Christian support despite their personal shortcomings.

 

[Calminian]

....We all know about the Access Hollywood tape, the sexual assault allegations.....

And we all know how much you love to cite fake news. You were among many citing the fake rape stories about Trump during the election. You can't let it go.

 

[TCassidy]

Reagan did a 180 on abortion. In fact he supported abortion legislation in CA as a democrat governor.

Ronald Reagan was never the Democrat Governor of California. He was first elected to that office in 1967. He switched from Democrat to Republican in 1962.

As long as we are looking at some of the horrors under Reagan don't forget the Mulford Act. It is the very worst gun control act ever to become law in California. Passed by the Democrat controlled Legislature and the evenly split Senate, and signed into law by none other than Ronald Reagan in 1967.

 

[Calminian]

Ronald Reagan was never the Democrat Governor of California. He was first elected to that office in 1967. He switched from Democrat to Republican in 1962.

correction received. thx.

As long as we are looking at some of the horrors under Reagan don't forget the Mulford Act. It is the very worst gun control act ever to become law in California. Passed by the Democrat controlled Legislature and the evenly split Senate, and signed into law by none other than Ronald Reagan in 1967.

There you go. flipped on abortion and guns. and what shall we say about amnesty? the main reason i'd support Trump over Reagan today.

 

[just-want-peace]

I didn't realize there was such a gulf between being married twice and divorced once, and married thrice and divorced twice. And just like Reagan, Trump has managed to stay friends with Ivanna who supported him and voted for him. So I really fail to see the chasm you're describing.

And you glossed over the flip-flopping part. Reagan did a 180 on abortion. In fact he supported abortion legislation in CA as a democrat governor. You're trying to tell me that wouldn't have been an issue with you?

The way I look at it both Reagan and Trump were flawed human beings with failed marriages, and liberal histories. And I serious don't know the true spiritual condition of either. I don't know for sure if Reagan was a born again believer. He might have been, just as Trump might be now.

But in regard to their politics, they have my vote, as they seem to understand God's purpose for government better than many believing doctrinally sound candidates do. That's why both enjoyed wide Christian support despite their personal shortcomings.

Far, far better, IMHO, than the "Christian" Carter seemed to have any hint of!!

(I put Christian in quotes because I DO NOT know his status; only his claims, but, again IMHO, his governing did not bear fruits of this.)

 

[John D. Wright]

I think every christian is responsible to God but we should not be hasty to judge others for choosing differently. I think Jeffress is way too political as is Franklin Graham. Just preach the bible and people will figure it out. When we get political, politics ends up dirtying everyone's testimony.

 

[Calminian]

I think every christian is responsible to God but we should not be hasty to judge others for choosing differently. I think Jeffress is way too political as is Franklin Graham. Just preach the bible and people will figure it out. When we get political, politics ends up dirtying everyone's testimony.

Ummm, does that mean we shouldn't be participating in this forum?

 

[Reynolds]

I think every christian is responsible to God but we should not be hasty to judge others for choosing differently. I think Jeffress is way too political as is Franklin Graham. Just preach the bible and people will figure it out. When we get political, politics ends up dirtying everyone's testimony.

Your attitude is why The Church let the USA go to Hell in a hand basket.

 

[John D. Wright]

I think when the church stopped loving people and became judgmental hypocrites they lost the USA. Railing from the pulpit about politicians is not a way to win people. Teach the bible and they will come to the truth through the Holy Spirit's conviction.

 

[John D. Wright]

Ummm, does that mean we shouldn't be participating in this forum?

No. I'm here discussing the bible and things we believe. I'm hearing other peoples views and considering them in light of what I believe. We are christians. I didn't think this board was primarily about politics. I thought it was about sharing our faith and our understanding of the bible.

 

[Calminian]

No. I'm here discussing the bible and things we believe. ....

Actually you're railing about politics. Seems you feel you're the only one that gets a pass.

And I don't think Christians lost the USA for being political. The Abolitionist movement was political and almost exclusively Christian lead. Nor do I think fighting abortion is losing the Church. The Church has been losing ground more recently, and likely because of compromise and weak doctrine. No one is attracted to a wishy washy weak faith.

 

[John D. Wright]

Actually you're railing about politics. Seems you feel you're the only one that gets a pass.

And I don't think Christians lost the USA for being political. The Abolitionist movement was political and almost exclusively Christian lead. Nor do I think fighting abortion is losing the Church. The Church has been losing ground more recently, and likely because of compromise and weak doctrine. No one is attracted to a wishy washy weak faith.

So saying people shouldn't get political is getting political??

Abolitionism was fine so long as it was focused on slavery and not political candidates. That was my point perhaps I was unclear. I am not against preaching on moral issues (of course not!). I am against endorsing candidates. So preaching against abortion is great. The people though being taught can take what you teach and choose their candidates. You don't need to dwell on candidates. Why? Because human beings will always let you down. (with the exception of Christ but I hope that goes without saying).