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Do You Really Believe The Full Gospel?
- Thread starter KenH
- Start date
Rufus,
Have you ever seen a worm that lives forever ?
or one which lives in literal flames ?
or even flames that are never extinquished ?
It is a figurative parable.
Think about this..The things jesus referred to..was meant to be said to the jews in those days..to the lost sheep of isreal..those under the OLD COVENANT.
if anything remotely means anything to us through the interpretations of his parables today..
*its spiritual*
anyway..the things jesus mostly spoke to them was about their future SPIRITUAL struggles of those living under the mosaic law when Grace is introduced to their lives via the holy spirit.
The spiritual war between the law and grace.
Me2
Have you ever seen a worm that lives forever ?
or one which lives in literal flames ?
or even flames that are never extinquished ?
It is a figurative parable.
Think about this..The things jesus referred to..was meant to be said to the jews in those days..to the lost sheep of isreal..those under the OLD COVENANT.
if anything remotely means anything to us through the interpretations of his parables today..
*its spiritual*
anyway..the things jesus mostly spoke to them was about their future SPIRITUAL struggles of those living under the mosaic law when Grace is introduced to their lives via the holy spirit.
The spiritual war between the law and grace.
Me2
ISJ,
Thats what this is all about..
Believing in the unseen..by faith..
Looking for a God that Forgives rather than judges.
all the worms that I have ever seen...has died.
faith is given to me to "see" an invisible place where God dwells.
We call It Heaven..and its infinite..
or so my faith towards God expresses that to me.
all men should be treated just and equal.
either we all suffer for our sin
or we're all pardoned..its a simple choice.
based on my belief on the character of My God.
He Says he's Love..Case Closed.
I see How He Treats me..He "Pardoned Me"
I Expect No Less In His Attitude Towards Everyman.
Its That Simple.
No Matter What Kind of Man or Woman..Everyone was Born in the Image Of God..Not All Have Been Taught What That means Yet.
Me2
Thats what this is all about..
Believing in the unseen..by faith..
Looking for a God that Forgives rather than judges.
all the worms that I have ever seen...has died.
faith is given to me to "see" an invisible place where God dwells.
We call It Heaven..and its infinite..
or so my faith towards God expresses that to me.
all men should be treated just and equal.
either we all suffer for our sin
or we're all pardoned..its a simple choice.
based on my belief on the character of My God.
He Says he's Love..Case Closed.
I see How He Treats me..He "Pardoned Me"
I Expect No Less In His Attitude Towards Everyman.
Its That Simple.
No Matter What Kind of Man or Woman..Everyone was Born in the Image Of God..Not All Have Been Taught What That means Yet.
Me2
jonathanbensaul
New Member
This article left out a major component of authentic Christianity.
Love one another, treat others right, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the prisoners, comfort and heal the sick, help the widows, the weak, the despised and rejected ones of society, those who are helpless, hopeless or hapless etc etc etc
I don't have time to quote or cite the many many portions of Scripture so I'll settle for I John 3:23.
Love one another, treat others right, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the prisoners, comfort and heal the sick, help the widows, the weak, the despised and rejected ones of society, those who are helpless, hopeless or hapless etc etc etc
I don't have time to quote or cite the many many portions of Scripture so I'll settle for I John 3:23.
Ken H,
I don't get it, Brother! Every post I have read coming from you all point to the grace of God to those who believe--and then there are those who the Bible says will "believe not"--
I just don't get what you are pointing at--I was trained to squirrel hunt by my dad--he could see the squirrel when I couldn't--he would point and point--"See him up yonder in the fork of that tree?? See him yet??" and he would be patient and point--patient and point--until I saw what he saw--the squirrel--
But I don't see what your aim is--point again and by and by I might see and we might "get us a squirrel!!"
Your friend,
Blackbird
I don't get it, Brother! Every post I have read coming from you all point to the grace of God to those who believe--and then there are those who the Bible says will "believe not"--
I just don't get what you are pointing at--I was trained to squirrel hunt by my dad--he could see the squirrel when I couldn't--he would point and point--"See him up yonder in the fork of that tree?? See him yet??" and he would be patient and point--patient and point--until I saw what he saw--the squirrel--
But I don't see what your aim is--point again and by and by I might see and we might "get us a squirrel!!"
Your friend,
Blackbird
KenH
Well-Known Member
The point is that it is not just in this age during a few short years on this earth that one can come to believe in Jesus. One can believe in the next age but it will be through the fire of the lake of fire that such a one believes. He will end up believing by sight, such as the apostles Thomas and Paul did. It will be a tough way to bow the knee to Jesus, even worse than the trauma the apostle Paul went through on the road to Damascus.
God has reconciled the world to Himself in Jesus Christ.
God has reconciled the world to Himself in Jesus Christ.
You are right, Brother! The word does say that every knee will bow and every tongue will confess! There will be bowing made in the Lake of Fire but that bowing will always be confined to the Lake of Fire. There will be confessing made from the Lake, also! But that is as far as the confessing will get them! They will confess but will be beyond the point of redemption. Today is the day of salvation. Bowing, confessing and torment is all they will know from the Lake of Fire that burns forever and ever--because they did not believe on the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Is this what you are saying?? Is my front and rear site sighted up on that squirrel??
Your buddy,
Blackbird
Is this what you are saying?? Is my front and rear site sighted up on that squirrel??
Your buddy,
Blackbird
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Neal is right. Ken left his conspicuously out of his list of "full gospel quotes" -
Probably on purpose.
However Ken is also right about one thing. Those two quotes above do not describe "eternal torture" as the reward of the wicked.
Be that as it may - the wicked do get "the Lake of Fire" according to Rev 20. And the "smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever ever" according to Rev 14 - so we know that there is in fact "the smoke of their torment".
And we know from Rev 14:10 that they are "tormented IN THE PRESENCE of the Lamb and of His saints".
Ken is right about this torment not continuing on forever - as that would mean that Christ and His saints are stuck for all eternity at the brink of hell and their loved ones are forever tormented "IN THIER presence".
In Christ,
Bob
If we can't take any credit for going to heaven...then why if you go to hell it's your own fault. Hehehehehe - really – think about it.
God COMMANDS his followers to “love and forgive their enemies” and “to forgive 70 X 7” to “forgive without limit,” then He the Commander in Chief, does not do likewise.
Rather he’d say, “To HELL with the lot of them.”
That would actually make *us* better than our God, wouldn't it?
Christ gave himself a ransom for all (1Tim.2:6) and based upon this, "God will have all mankind to be saved" (1Tim.2:4).
God always gets what He wants. He IS almighty, ya know. \o/
Peace, GH
Just a suggestion to those who flat out refuse to prayerfully consider the ultimate reconciliation of all people through the finished work of Jesus Christ – do some independent study, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Put aside those traditions of men for a day or two.
God COMMANDS his followers to “love and forgive their enemies” and “to forgive 70 X 7” to “forgive without limit,” then He the Commander in Chief, does not do likewise.
Rather he’d say, “To HELL with the lot of them.”
That would actually make *us* better than our God, wouldn't it?
Christ gave himself a ransom for all (1Tim.2:6) and based upon this, "God will have all mankind to be saved" (1Tim.2:4).
God always gets what He wants. He IS almighty, ya know. \o/
Peace, GH
Just a suggestion to those who flat out refuse to prayerfully consider the ultimate reconciliation of all people through the finished work of Jesus Christ – do some independent study, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Put aside those traditions of men for a day or two.
I simply pose the question..
Who Believes they deserve salvation above any other man ?
who chooses what ?. you Dont, nor do I choose.
God chooses. He did in Eternity Past..
To Love HIS Creation..
Not to Bring harm to It...as some men think.
and please stop using OT figurative parables to refute UNDERSTANDABLE english.
worms really do die!
Me2
Who Believes they deserve salvation above any other man ?
who chooses what ?. you Dont, nor do I choose.
God chooses. He did in Eternity Past..
To Love HIS Creation..
Not to Bring harm to It...as some men think.
and please stop using OT figurative parables to refute UNDERSTANDABLE english.
worms really do die!
Me2
neal4christ
New Member
Please show me how you arrived at this conclusion. If you don't mind, support it Scripturally. Please don't post links, I want to know what you think.
Neal
neal4christ
New Member
I am not going to argue about what type of worms they will be, but I would like to point out that blind men don't see. Yet somehow Jesus had power over that.............
Neal
neal4christ
New Member
I would just like to ask the universalists in here a few of questions. Do you go to church? Do you witness? Do you try to live a holy life? Do you pray? Do you read the Bible? Do you put others before yourself?
If you answer yes to any of these, why then? After all, everyone will be okay, won't they? To me, it would just be a huge waste of time to do any of these things if it really doesn't matter one bit in the end.
Alas, I fear your theology is the type of theology that the world loves to hear nowadays........
Neal
If you answer yes to any of these, why then? After all, everyone will be okay, won't they? To me, it would just be a huge waste of time to do any of these things if it really doesn't matter one bit in the end.
Alas, I fear your theology is the type of theology that the world loves to hear nowadays........
Neal
neal4christ
New Member
So God wanted Adam and Eve to sin? And what of all the pain and suffering in this present world? Does He want that too? If you say no, then why is it here?
Neal
Neal4christ,
You wrote: I would just like to ask the universalists in here a few of questions. Do you go to church? Do you witness? Do you try to live a holy life? Do you pray? Do you read the Bible? Do you put others before yourself?
I reply: Dear brother, that’s just the point – it isn’t about what I do or what you do, but what God has done, is doing and will do. It is about relationship with the Living God from which all these “things” come.
You wrote: So God wanted Adam and Eve to sin? And what of all the pain and suffering in this present world? Does He want that too? If you say no, then why is it here?
I reply: If you think that God didn’t know what Adam and Eve was going do before they did it, then you aren’t seeing the sovereignty of God. And BTW A & E didn’t have a church, witness to anyone, pray (they spoke with God directly and heard from Him directly), they had no bible – just the pure first hand word of God AND they certainly didn’t put each other first before themselves. Mankind cannot DO anything – it’s all grace. That is what the story of A & E is about.
Let me ask you a question. What has 2000 years of the “Church” accomplished? My answer: A works oriented, judgmental, schizo mentality that brings no real, lasting peace. It worships doctrine, a denomination, a leader and ITSELF.
I can do nothing without HIM – for HE is the center and the source of ALL THINGS.
Christ4you.
Peace, GH
You wrote: I would just like to ask the universalists in here a few of questions. Do you go to church? Do you witness? Do you try to live a holy life? Do you pray? Do you read the Bible? Do you put others before yourself?
I reply: Dear brother, that’s just the point – it isn’t about what I do or what you do, but what God has done, is doing and will do. It is about relationship with the Living God from which all these “things” come.
You wrote: So God wanted Adam and Eve to sin? And what of all the pain and suffering in this present world? Does He want that too? If you say no, then why is it here?
I reply: If you think that God didn’t know what Adam and Eve was going do before they did it, then you aren’t seeing the sovereignty of God. And BTW A & E didn’t have a church, witness to anyone, pray (they spoke with God directly and heard from Him directly), they had no bible – just the pure first hand word of God AND they certainly didn’t put each other first before themselves. Mankind cannot DO anything – it’s all grace. That is what the story of A & E is about.
Let me ask you a question. What has 2000 years of the “Church” accomplished? My answer: A works oriented, judgmental, schizo mentality that brings no real, lasting peace. It worships doctrine, a denomination, a leader and ITSELF.
I can do nothing without HIM – for HE is the center and the source of ALL THINGS.
Christ4you.
Peace, GH
Doubting Thomas
Active Member
Strong's Number: 166 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
aijwvnioß from (165)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Aionios 1:208,31
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ahee-o'-nee-os Adjective
Definition
1.without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2.without beginning
3.without end, never to cease, everlasting
This is the word that is translated "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46 in which the punishment of the unbeliever is described.
In regards to Mark 9:43, I don't know exactly what the nature of the "fire" mentioned here, but the Bible says it will NEVER be quenched.
It's tragic to see the progression to universalism in the mind of the Calvinist, when the Calvinist premise of monergistically imposed faith is false to begin with. Ezekiel 18:30-31 teaches that repentence is necessary in order to get the "new heart and new spirit". Those who do not repent will not be regenerated.
Original Word Word Origin
aijwvnioß from (165)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Aionios 1:208,31
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ahee-o'-nee-os Adjective
Definition
1.without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2.without beginning
3.without end, never to cease, everlasting
This is the word that is translated "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46 in which the punishment of the unbeliever is described.
In regards to Mark 9:43, I don't know exactly what the nature of the "fire" mentioned here, but the Bible says it will NEVER be quenched.
It's tragic to see the progression to universalism in the mind of the Calvinist, when the Calvinist premise of monergistically imposed faith is false to begin with. Ezekiel 18:30-31 teaches that repentence is necessary in order to get the "new heart and new spirit". Those who do not repent will not be regenerated.