Do You See a definite satanic Inluence In Strident Homosexuality?

[Zaac]

We are in basic agreement. I think Zaac is more of a black and white person on issues and maybe we who are of the older generation see shades of gray. Thing is, we are all human. Every male has committed the sin of lust, married or unmarried, in his mind. And, for most of us, that sin in our mind or physically, was committed with a member of the opposite sex, so naturally, our sin is always not as bad as the other sin, in this case, the same sex preference. The reality is that the Bible strongly condemns both. When Zaac equates both sins equally, which in a sense they are, it appears to some he is defending same sex activity. In my secular mind, for example, same sex activity is disgusting, saved or lost, so no sin involved.

This reminds me of another thread about who to let into church for membership. We as Baptists have pet sins we love to harp on like drinking, dancing, gambling, movies, TV, etc. Most of the list have no Biblical foundation, and for the most part, the list was created by gossips, gluttons, and those who cannot mind their own business.

I do know that Pastor Paul has been a solid Scriptural poster on this board for years, and consider him a close friend.

:applause::applause:

 

[Zaac]

Zaac is always trying to make the case that the church places an unnecessary and stronger emphasis on things like homesxuality. That is where the difference come from.

I never said unnecessary. But there is DEFINITELY a stronger emphasis. In the words of Sapper Woody

But is it any worse than the rampant hetero-sexuality we see every day on billboards, TV ads, magazines, books, the internet, and so on? Isn't the woman (or man) that is sleeping around with multiple partners with no repercussions doing just as much to erode the foundation of Biblical marriage as the homosexual agenda?

Sin is sin. Homosexuality = fornication = adultery = drunkenness = lying = stealing. Each one, if gone unchallenged, erodes at our foundation as a moral society just as much as the one before it.

However, in order to make that case one must ignore some facts. The homosexual agenda is political whereas other sins are not being pushed on the American people the homosexuality. Therefore it gets more attention from the Christian community and rightly so.

Again, that's a bunch of baloney. Heterosexual fornication is pushed and has been pushed on the American people many times over more than homosexuality. How many threads do you see started on that?

As Sapper said, ... is it any worse than the rampant hetero-sexuality we see every day on billboards, TV ads, magazines, books, the internet, and so on? Isn't the woman (or man) that is sleeping around with multiple partners with no repercussions doing just as much to erode the foundation of Biblical marriage as the homosexual agenda

It DEFINITELY is not worse. It just happens to be one of the pet sins that folks in the church have become known for harping on while ignoring other sin.

 

[Yeshua1]

Because THAT is not a BIBLICAL truth. That's what you and the church want to be the BIBLICAL truth. But it's just YOUR truth.

I don't know of anyone in the church who just stopped sinning once they came to faith in Christ.

People have and deal with strongholds that do not just disappear when they come to faith in Christ.

If you're hooked on crack on Tuesday and come to faith in Christ on Wednesday, that doesn't necessarily mean that you will not struggle with that crack addiction on Thursday.

You and so many in the church are so concerned with being right about the issue that you keep forgetting that these are people. Where has God in His word ever said that people cannot still struggle with their past sin after being saved?

They refer to you as hate mongers because they don't hear anything of love coming from you because you and so many in the church don't think they can still struggle with their sin after God saves them.

Paul says in Scripture:

15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. Romans 7:15-20

PEOPLE will still struggle with sin until God returns and gives us all our new glorified bodies.

if you are still encased in sinful flesh, you STILL have the capacity to sin the same sins you did before you were saved.

Do you disagree with paul that a person whose life style after claiming salvation show no change, is still engaging in homosexuality, without remorse, or conviction, or seeing need to stop is NOT saved, but deluding themselves?

NOT saying tht gay people need to become instantly pure and innocent afetr salavtion, but they need to shoew a definite and real bent towards coming out of that life style, and to see it as being sinful practice from now on!

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Because THAT is not a BIBLICAL truth. That's what you and the church want to be the BIBLICAL truth. But it's just YOUR truth.

You deny these verses declare homosexual behavior to be sinful?

Leviticus 18, NASB
22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Leviticus 20
13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."

1 Corinthians 6
9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Romans 1
26 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."
​

I don't know of anyone in the church who just stopped sinning once they came to faith in Christ.

That's not the same argument, and is irrelevant as well. Though we continue to sin, we must repent. So must they. I will say I do not consider homosexual behavior to be any greater a sin than adultery, or other "major" sins. None are more serious. But all demand repentance, and refusing to repent, continuing willfully in sin, is not acceptable to God.

People have and deal with strongholds that do not just disappear when they come to faith in Christ.

Nonetheless, eventually the strongholds must be pulled down. Homosexuals glory in their sin rather than consider it a stronghold they cannot overcome.

If you're hooked on crack on Tuesday and come to faith in Christ on Wednesday, that doesn't necessarily mean that you will not struggle with that crack addiction on Thursday.

No, but it does mean you acknowledge the sin and find help for it through counseling, treatment and support groups. Most homosexuals do not want to admit the behavior is sin, much less find help to abandon the lifestyle, or at least find help to be abstinent.

You and so many in the church are so concerned with being right about the issue that you keep forgetting that these are people.

And you forget they are people in sin who must repent.

Where has God in His word ever said that people cannot still struggle with their past sin after being saved?

Struggling is not their issue. Denial is their issue. Denial of sin is folly.

They refer to you as hate mongers because they don't hear anything of love coming from you ...

That may be true from some, but not from all. They prefer to call all who say they are continuing in sin "haters" because most do not want to abandon their sin.

... because you and so many in the church don't think they can still struggle with their sin after God saves them.

I know they will continue to struggle. But they must admit it is a sin before they can "struggle." Otherwise, they are just revelers in a sinful lifestyle believing their salvation keeps them from punishment. It does in the eternal, if they are truly repentant. But flaunting their sin in this life and claiming it is not sin is denial of God's truth, and bears its own penalty. You cannot deny the work of the Holy Spirit and be saved.

Paul says in Scripture:

15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. Romans 7:15-20

Yes he does. But Paul understood he was a sinner. Most who engage in homosexual do not make that acknowledgment, and therefore are either carnal in nature, or not saved at all. There is punishment for both types of people, and you know that.

PEOPLE will still struggle with sin until God returns and gives us all our new glorified bodies.

To paraphrase Inigo Montoya from "The Princess Bride," "You keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means." You insist they struggle. They do not struggle, mostly. They deny. Huge difference.

if you are still encased in sinful flesh, you STILL have the capacity to sin the same sins you did before you were saved.

But eventually the Holy Spirit will convict me of my sin and my strongholds and I will seek His help in pulling them down. Yet again, I must point out, if they deny what they do is sin, they do not have the Holy Spirit in them, or they are quenching Him and preventing Him from doing His convicting worth. It will not go well for them in either case.

 

[Yeshua1]

I never said unnecessary. But there is DEFINITELY a stronger emphasis. In the words of Sapper Woody





Again, that's a bunch of baloney. Heterosexual fornication is pushed and has been pushed on the American people many times over more than homosexuality. How many threads do you see started on that?

As Sapper said, ... is it any worse than the rampant hetero-sexuality we see every day on billboards, TV ads, magazines, books, the internet, and so on? Isn't the woman (or man) that is sleeping around with multiple partners with no repercussions doing just as much to erode the foundation of Biblical marriage as the homosexual agenda

It DEFINITELY is not worse. It just happens to be one of the pet sins that folks in the church have become known for harping on while ignoring other sin.

Do you agree with the Lord that if someone is a Homosexual, and even afetr saying they received jesus as the Lord/saviour, and yet has no inclination/desire to repent and come out of that behaviour/life style, and see no need to change their ways, per the bible, the salvation never took, and are still lost in their sins?

Just concerned many caught up in that way of life has bogus salvation!

 

[Zaac]

Do you agree with the Lord that if someone is a Homosexual, and even afetr saying they received jesus as the Lord/saviour, and yet has no inclination/desire to repent and come out of that behaviour/life style, and see no need to change their ways, per the bible, the salvation never took, and are still lost in their sins?

Just concerned many caught up in that way of life has bogus salvation!

Salvation doesn't "take". It's not some do x,y,z and see if it sticks sort of thing.:flower:

And based upon behavior and the lack of love, I'd venture that the majority of the folks sitting in the pews of the church who say they are saved, aren't.

But the church is caught up on the homosexual. You can say the same thing about the heterosexuals who continue to fornicate for years. What about the folks with the nasty mouths? They obviously don't think anything is wrong with it for as soon as they get away from the church, the cussing starts. What about the abusive husband? It's gone on for years. What about the mother getting high on pain pills? High during church every week. What about the sons and daughters who get drunk every Friday and Saturday night? What about those who have no respect for the authority God has placed over them? Disrespectful from sunup to sundown and everything in between. What about those harboring anger and unforgiveness? And refuse to let go of it. What about those who dress immodestly and see nothing wrong with it?What about the folks who can't love anyone who doesn't look just like them? They put on a good church face but as soon as they leave the truth is exposed.

How many of these folks are we going after as having bogus faith?What about allthese folks? Their repeated disobedience says they refuse to repent and have no desire to repent and see no desire to change or relse they would have stopped repeating the same sin.

So righteously judge all the other sinners within the church the same way or just be quiet on the subject.

In 1 Corinthians 5:12-13, we see that "It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, 'You must remove the evil person from among you.' "

Outside the church, lovingly preach the Gospel and leave the judging of those outside the church to GOD.

If you believe they are not within the church because their salvation "never took" then YOU stop disobeying what God says by passing judgment upon them.

 

[Yeshua1]

Salvation doesn't "take". It's not some do x,y,z and see if it sticks sort of thing.:flower:

And based upon behavior and the lack of love, I'd venture that the majority of the folks sitting in the pews of the church who say they are saved, aren't.

But the church is caught up on the homosexual. You can say the same thing about the heterosexuals who continue to fornicate for years. What about the folks with the nasty mouths? They obviously don't think anything is wrong with it for as soon as they get away from the church, the cussing starts. What about the abusive husband? It's gone on for years. What about the mother getting high on pain pills? High during church every week. What about the sons and daughters who get drunk every Friday and Saturday night? What about those who have no respect for the authority God has placed over them? Disrespectful from sunup to sundown and everything in between. What about those harboring anger and unforgiveness? And refuse to let go of it. What about those who dress immodestly and see nothing wrong with it?What about the folks who can't love anyone who doesn't look just like them? They put on a good church face but as soon as they leave the truth is exposed.

How many of these folks are we going after as having bogus faith?What about allthese folks? Their repeated disobedience says they refuse to repent and have no desire to repent and see no desire to change or relse they would have stopped repeating the same sin.

So righteously judge all the other sinners within the church the same way or just be quiet on the subject.

In 1 Corinthians 5:12-13, we see that "It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, 'You must remove the evil person from among you.' "

Outside the church, lovingly preach the Gospel and leave the judging of those outside the church to GOD.

If you believe they are not within the church because their salvation "never took" then YOU stop disobeying what God says by passing judgment upon them.

Apostles Jphn. peter, and paul stated under the inspiration of the Lord that all who have been saved will NOT habitually keepon practicing former live styles, that whils often do still fall and sin, they will desire to NOT keep doing old things, and WILl eventually overcome thru the power and presense of the Holy Spirit...

Do you deny that saved gays must strive to come out and stop practicing that life style, or that the sin tempation in them is too graet for the Cross and the Spriit to enable them to overcome it?

 

[Zaac]

Apostles Jphn. peter, and paul stated under the inspiration of the Lord that all who have been saved will NOT habitually keepon practicing former live styles, that whils often do still fall and sin, they will desire to NOT keep doing old things, and WILl eventually overcome thru the power and presense of the Holy Spirit...

Again, how do you account for all these sinners in the church doing the same things they did before they were "saved"? Why aren't they being addressed as ardently as the hoosexuals?

AGain, you're called to judge those within the church. Is homosexuality this big a deal within your church?

Do you deny that saved gays must strive to come out and stop practicing that life style, or that the sin tempation in them is too graet for the Cross and the Spriit to enable them to overcome it?

Do you deny that of the adulterer? the heterosexual fornicator? the immodest dresser? the glutton?

 

[righteousdude2]

I would AGREE...

Do you disagree with paul that a person whose life style after claiming salvation show no change, is still engaging in homosexuality, without remorse, or conviction, or seeing need to stop is NOT saved, but deluding themselves?

NOT saying tht gay people need to become instantly pure and innocent afetr salavtion, but they need to shoew a definite and real bent towards coming out of that life style, and to see it as being sinful practice from now on!

....with one spiritual caveat: They no longer refer to themselves as gay, or hang around with the homosexual crowd.

After all, "All things are become new" and we are told to go and sin no more! What good does it do to a man or woman to be set free from the sin of fornication, adultery, or homosexuality ... only to return [if not to commit the sin, again], and casually hang with the crowd. Eventually, they will be tempted, and having just been freed from that sin would make the temptation even more difficult to turn down.

And exam;e would be a person delivered from the sin of porn, and taking a full time job managing an Adult Book Store! Not only does his job put him smack in the midst of porn; he is feeding the sinful addictions and habits of those who are involved in the sin he was set free from!

The shows poor spiritual judgement. Poor choices. living in the middle of temptation. and consorting with the devil, whom he was set free from! Now, who do you think will win this war or battle to remain free from the porn culture; worse yet, what kind of testimony is this to others and God himself?

I have three thoughts about a born-again child of God returning to, or remaining with the old crowd:

1) You are morally and spiritually GUILTY by association!
2) Turn your back on past sins. - Taken from WikiHOW article titled: "How to Avoid Temptation to Sin" - The one thing you can't change about yourself is your past. Don't let yourself be overcome by regret for sins that happened during the past. The only right path is forward, towards righteousness. If your past is marked by sin, acknowledge your mistakes without excessive guilt. Build upon your past mistakes. Strive never to make your old mistakes again. Even if you relapse, you'll have made progress away from your sinful past. •If you haven't already, sincerely ask God for forgiveness. God is infinite in his capacity to forgive. In his eyes, once you are forgiven; it's as if you had never committed sin in the first place: "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more." (Hebrews 10:17)
3) Do as Joseph, and Flee Temptation! Remember, it is not as difficult to flee temptation if you have not pitched your tent smack-dab in the midst of that which YOU KNOW will tempt you!

Sure, making a complete break from your sin culture will take time, but making the break must start at the moment of rebirth! You are no longer gay or lesbian, rather; you are now BORN-AGAIN! And while it may take time to get from where you started to where He wants you to be, putting yourself back in the middle of the fight is not beneficial to the new-born child!

Too many so-called believers are unaware that to return to sin is like a dog who returns to his own vomit! It is spiritually repulsive, and shows wanton disregard to the sacrificial death of Jesus!

​

How many times have you stood over the sinful vomit of your life and said exactly the same words as noted in the above cartoon? Unfortunately, even I have done this, to my own shame and personal dispair, and it wasn't until I got serious and moved far, far away from Sodom and Gomorrah, that I was able to let the Holy Spirit get the process of sanctification going strong! Selah!

 

[stevewm1963]

As has already been pointed out concerning homosexuals they do not admit it as a sin..to them this is a natural act of love! What concerns me about homosexuals is they affect society as a whole...children as well! I heard a 10 year old child proclaim she knew the very day that she turned bisexual! This lifestyle is growing by leaps and bounds and should be addressed by the church in my opinion!

 

[righteousdude2]

It is being addressed...

As has already been pointed out concerning homosexuals they do not admit it as a sin..to them this is a natural act of love! What concerns me about homosexuals is they affect society as a whole...children as well! I heard a 10 year old child proclaim she knew the very day that she turned bisexual! This lifestyle is growing by leaps and bounds and should be addressed by the church in my opinion!

.... but if your church is not addressing it, get on your pastor and get him to preach about this.

You are correct about the sin growing. Here in the not so Golden State [California], we have Hollywood and San Francisco as staunch supporters of perversion ... just look at the content of the shows on television, in the theaters, and how news covers same-gender events?

Then you have the supreme court, led by a gay, who happened to break the tie on whether to throw out Porp 8, or let it stand. He's gay, did we expect him to do anything but toss the homophobic bill out?

Now we are teaching history in school that includes the wonderful and many contributions of gays throughout both US and world history!

Then we saw the same-gender bathroom bill go into effect on January 1st. Now if a child says they identify with the other gender they can legally participate in that sport, use the dressing and changing rooms, take showers and use the bathrooms of the sex they feel like they really are.

In others that child you mentioned, at 1o years old could now use the restrooms and locker facilities of the sex they feel most comfortable being around!

To top that off, like the little married couple on top the wedding cake, the 125th Rose Parade had a float that conducted a same-sex marriage!

Is it any wonder that this 10-year-old is confused and spouting things such as what you shared?

And it won't stop there. They have only begun to get what they want as the odd sex, and as it becomes more socially acceptable to be gay, more customs will fall and laws will change to accommodate them!

 

[stevewm1963]

.... but if your church is not addressing it, get on your pastor and get him to preach about this.

You are correct about the sin growing. Here in the not so Golden State [California], we have Hollywood and San Francisco as staunch supporters of perversion ... just look at the content of the shows on television, in the theaters, and how news covers same-gender events?

Then you have the supreme court, led by a gay, who happened to break the tie on whether to throw out Porp 8, or let it stand. He's gay, did we expect him to do anything but toss the homophobic bill out?

Now we are teaching history in school that includes the wonderful and many contributions of gays throughout both US and world history!

Then we saw the same-gender bathroom bill go into effect on January 1st. Now if a child says they identify with the other gender they can legally participate in that sport, use the dressing and changing rooms, take showers and use the bathrooms of the sex they feel like they really are.

In others that child you mentioned, at 1o years old could now use the restrooms and locker facilities of the sex they feel most comfortable being around!

To top that off, like the little married couple on top the wedding cake, the 125th Rose Parade had a float that conducted a same-sex marriage!

Is it any wonder that this 10-year-old is confused and spouting things such as what you shared?

And it won't stop there. They have only begun to get what they want as the odd sex, and as it becomes more socially acceptable to be gay, more customs will fall and laws will change to accommodate them!

My pastor does address it quite often...he is strictly a bible preacher but sadly enough many do not for fear of offending someone! I think we're pretty much like minded on this issue!

 

[righteousdude2]

How sad, BUT very true!

My pastor does address it quite often...he is strictly a bible preacher but sadly enough many do not for fear of offending someone! I think we're pretty much like minded on this issue!

The church and its participants have become so politically correct and tolerant, that the fear of a person going to hell has been replaced by the fear of offending them!

As for me and my family, we choose to offend! :applause:

 

[Zaac]

If they are outside the church, why are we judging them and one sin as opposed to righteously judging them as lost and in need of all of their sins being forgiven?

Why are we fighting against issues as opposed to fighting to point those mired in ALL of their unforgiven sin towards Christ?

Ain't nobody going to hell because they are mired in homosexual sin. If there's one sin, there's two.

 

[Zaac]

.... but if your church is not addressing it, get on your pastor and get him to preach about this.

You are correct about the sin growing. Here in the not so Golden State [California], we have Hollywood and San Francisco as staunch supporters of perversion ... just look at the content of the shows on television, in the theaters, and how news covers same-gender events?

Then you have the supreme court, led by a gay, who happened to break the tie on whether to throw out Porp 8, or let it stand. He's gay, did we expect him to do anything but toss the homophobic bill out?

Now we are teaching history in school that includes the wonderful and many contributions of gays throughout both US and world history!

Then we saw the same-gender bathroom bill go into effect on January 1st. Now if a child says they identify with the other gender they can legally participate in that sport, use the dressing and changing rooms, take showers and use the bathrooms of the sex they feel like they really are.

In others that child you mentioned, at 1o years old could now use the restrooms and locker facilities of the sex they feel most comfortable being around!

To top that off, like the little married couple on top the wedding cake, the 125th Rose Parade had a float that conducted a same-sex marriage!

Is it any wonder that this 10-year-old is confused and spouting things such as what you shared?

And it won't stop there. They have only begun to get what they want as the odd sex, and as it becomes more socially acceptable to be gay, more customs will fall and laws will change to accommodate them!

PREACh the Gospel. The world of lost sinners will continue to act like lost sinners.

 

[righteousdude2]

Thanks for Letting Me Know!

A member let me know that Z-antagonist is still addressing my comments!

For the last time ... Zaac, YOU are on permanent IGNORE - Please don't waste your fingers-away trying to get my attention, as you and your opinions have grown tiresome! :laugh:

 

[Zaac]

A member let me know that Z-antagonist is still addressing my comments!

For the last time ... Zaac, YOU are on permanent IGNORE - Please don't waste your fingers-away trying to get my attention, as you and your opinions have grown tiresome! :laugh:

A member ain't let you know squat. You read it yourself. As in all your crazy responses before, you could have kept that one too as I will respond to whatever I choose and you DO NOT have to reply back.:thumbsup:

 

[Judith]

That this"movement" within society and in the Church seems to hve heavy demonic aspect to it?

There is no doubt you are correct. While all sin could be characterized as demonic in spirit we are seeing an ever increasing acceptance in the world and church of this sin. I believe in the church because Pastors are not dealing with the issue head on and people are starting to buy into the movements propaganda.

 

[Zaac]

There is no doubt you are correct. While all sin could be characterized as demonic in spirit we are seeing an ever increasing acceptance in the world and church of this sin. I believe in the church because Pastors are not dealing with the issue head on and people are starting to buy into the movements propaganda.

I would disagree. This just happens to be a pet sin of the church and it in essence have seen far more, many times over,an ever increasing acceptance in the world and the church of heterosexual fornication and lust so much so that it's now normalized into our lives.

Looking at the football games on tv, and it's amazing how little we hear the church talk about the cheerleaders in their skimpy "uniforms". It's just a heterosexualized something we just accept as normal.

 

[just-want-peace]

I would disagree. This just happens to be a pet sin of the church and it in essence have seen far more, many times over,an ever increasing acceptance in the world and the church of heterosexual fornication and lust so much so that it's now normalized into our lives.

Looking at the football games on tv, and it's amazing how little we hear the church talk about the cheerleaders in their skimpy "uniforms". It's just a heterosexualized something we just accept as normal.

Seems you are the one that is totally focused on this deviancy crowd. Every time the subject comes up, YOU pop in to offer your "wisdom"; specifically that everybody else is being overly zealous to condemn.:sleep:

Then you bring up other sins to blast the "condemners" of your pet sin - like the cheerleaders.

When the cheerleaders start petitioning the govt to accept and push an agenda to force the public to ACCEPT & ENDORSE their semi-nudeness, and get all "in-your-face " with it as the queers do, then I imagine you'll see a similar push-back like that against the queers.

Meanwhile if you would just tell us why you are so set on coddling this particular group, perhaps we could be a bit more understanding of your stance!
Like, are you part of this group, or do you have some similar relation to the group as Cheney does, or have you suddenly found a close friend has come out of the closet, or what?

But just to keep telling us that there are other sins does not explain your fascination to continue to downplay the seriousness of this abomination!

Oh, telling me that you'll post as you like, or that you don't have to answer to me, or some such bovine excrement, is un-necessary, as I full well know that. So if that's all you're gonna do, save your efforts, as I've read those comments you've made to others many times before.raying: