Do you see Two Different levels of the Holy spirit Among believers today?

[DaChaser1]

That ALL are indwelt, just SOME have the 'baptism of Holy Ghost?"

IF so, how would you define that doctrine as being?

 

[plain_n_simple]

I believe the Spirit indwells all believers. Baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, then you'll see Jesus manifesting through that person doing awesome things.

 

[DaChaser1]

I believe the Spirit indwells all believers. Baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, then you'll see Jesus manifesting through that person doing awesome things.

jesus NEVER said to have spoken in tongues, did he do awesome things?

And even IF ones holds to the Spiritual gifts still in operation, the HS gave tongues asa gift to whoever he willed, so its NOT something to evidence as you suggested!

Also, the Bible says ALL are indwelt, but being infilled by him up to us, NOT though something ONLY tongue speakers can aspire to having!

 

[plain_n_simple]

Our beliefs are different.

 

[glfredrick]

Our beliefs are different.

Indeed! How do you know that it is of God and not a counterfeit?

http://www.psihijatrija.com/bibliografija/radovi/Koic E GLOSSOLALIA COLLEGIUM.pdf

Glossolalia has been described for centuries in many communities all over the world. Jennings observed that
glossolalia is practiced among non-Christian religions: the Peyote cult among the North American Indians, the
Haida Indians of the Pacific Northwest, Shamans in the Sudan, the Shango cult of the West Coast of Africa, the
Shago cult in Trinidad, the Voodoo cult in Haiti, the Aborigines of South America and Australia, the Eskimos of
the subarctic regions of North America and Asia, the Shamans in Greenland, the Dyaks of Borneo, the Zor
cult of Ethiopia, the Siberian shamans, the Chaco Indians of South America, the Curanderos of the Andes, the
Kinka in the African Sudan, the Thonga shamans of Africa, and the Tibetan monks5. Goodman studied glossolalia
in four cultural settings including mystical schools of yoga, initiation ceremonies of shamanism, rituals of
the Greek priests of Apollo, the ancient Israelites, the Quakers and the Methodists6. Glossolalia occurs most
often as ecstatic utterance in religious groups, which provoke trance or religious ecstasies during their usual
rituals7.

Seems to be a reasonably common HUMAN trait enhanced by ecstatic religious ritutual versus a movement of the Holy Spirit.

When I have been in the presence of those speaking utterances in the service of worship I have noticed some particular behaviors that almost always preceed the event. Rythmic swaying, focus on a particular word or phrase, altered breathing patterns, sometimes jumping or clapping, and generally a sort of "frenzy" that people place themselves into. It would seem that if the Holy Spirit produced the effect, one could just sit or stand there and produce some vocabulary that someone else could readily translate, but that seem to not happen often at all, at least where I've seen the practice.

 

[Ed B]

Our beliefs are different.

I have known a lot of tongue talkers over the years and I am related to many. Some do awesome things; some do awful things. Anyone who believes that those are more holy than someone who has not displayed the manifestation of speaking in tongues is naive and is in for a serious disappointment in short order.

To answer the OP: No, I do not see two different levels.

 

[Ed B]

Our beliefs are different.

Indeed! How do you know that it is of God and not a counterfeit?

http://www.psihijatrija.com/bibliografija/radovi/Koic E GLOSSOLALIA COLLEGIUM.pdf



Seems to be a reasonably common HUMAN trait enhanced by ecstatic religious ritutual versus a movement of the Holy Spirit.

When I have been in the presence of those speaking utterances in the service of worship I have noticed some particular behaviors that almost always preceed the event. Rythmic swaying, focus on a particular word or phrase, altered breathing patterns, sometimes jumping or clapping, and generally a sort of "frenzy" that people place themselves into. It would seem that if the Holy Spirit produced the effect, one could just sit or stand there and produce some vocabulary that someone else could readily translate, but that seem to not happen often at all, at least where I've seen the practice.

There is another time. It goes like this:

The pastor or worship leader of a Pentecostal or Charismatic church will come to a point in the service where they expect there will be a message in tongues or a prophecy. Sometimes it will happen right away but not always. In the latter case, after a period of awkward silence, either the pastor of one of the regular older men will give a message, and then the other will interpret. The awkward silence almost always results in the same individuals giving an Old Testament-style general warning against worldly living and an exhortation to humble ourselves and seek His face. In other words, something general enough that you wouldn't object to the message in and of itself.

Now, when the awkward silence is followed by nothing except a resumption of the regular service then there is a general feeling of guilt and failure among the congregants. It is very uncomfortable so someone will generally come through….

 

[mandym]

That ALL are indwelt, just SOME have the 'baptism of Holy Ghost?"

IF so, how would you define that doctrine as being?

Much of what we see today is false man made manifestations and ungodly behavior. tongues for the sake of experiencing God personally is nothing more than sensual behavior that does nothing to glorify God. Worship is never about what one receives from God. Such a mentality is idolatry.

 

[Iconoclast]

You do not understand Spirit Baptism to make this thread.

 

[DaChaser1]

You do not understand Spirit Baptism to make this thread.

Well...

wsa trained in assemblies of god school, and wasan Elder there in local church, so DO think know how a charasmatic views this topic, just curious as to how Baptists did!

 

[Iconoclast]

Well...

wsa trained in assemblies of god school, and wasan Elder there in local church, so DO think know how a charasmatic views this topic, just curious as to how Baptists did!

Do some reading on Spirit Baptism...learn the other views

 

[DaChaser1]

Do some reading on Spirit Baptism...learn the other views

any recommendations for which authors to read?

Just curious...

Do you hold to it being for ALL believers in Christ, as the filling of the HS, or is it referencing HS placing us spiritually into Body of Christ once reborn?

 

[righteousdude2]

Imho...

That ALL are indwelt, just SOME have the 'baptism of Holy Ghost?"

IF so, how would you define that doctrine as being?

...there are only different levels manifested, because of the different levels of belief and acceptance by the multitudes who have been baptized in the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost can only do, and WILL only do, that which the person is willing and able to allow.

If tongues are present, that is because that is a choice. If tongues are rejected, that is a choice. If laying on of hands is practiced, it is because it is accepted, If people reject having hands laid on them, so be it, too!

This can go on forever. The Spirit can only do what the person is willing to be amenable to having done in and through them. So, there are probably MANY levels of what the Spirit does in and through others!

I have found God to be a respecter of those who love and follow Him. Like the artist of Christ at the Door portrays, the handle for the door is on the side of the believer, not the side on which Jesus stands and knocks.

We must first be willing to be indwelled with the presence of the Holy Ghost, and then trusting enough, in faith, to allow him to manifest those gifts and loose the range of those gifts within each of us. For instance, you can't have the gift of preaching, if you don't believe in His power to indwell the preacher and manifest the spoken word through that person (plus you must believe in the calling to preach)! SELAH!!!

 

[robertguwapito]

I believe the Spirit indwells all believers. Baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, then you'll see Jesus manifesting through that person doing awesome things.

Hello Plain n Simple :smilewinkgrin:

If you guys in church are not speaking foreign languages, then it is not speaking in tongues. :thumbsup:

 

[robertguwapito]

Our beliefs are different.

Hello Plain n Simple :smilewinkgrin:

Our beliefs are different because...

1. Our beliefs are Baptist.
2. Your beliefs are Pentecostal. (Your avatar is that of Smith Wigglesworth. Smith Wigglesworth is a hero of Pentecostalism. Therefore you admire Pentecostalism. Therefore your doctrine is different from Baptist doctrine.)

:smilewinkgrin:

 

[plain_n_simple]

Awesome, I have a troll.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Awesome, I have a troll.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[matt wade]

Awesome, I have a troll.

Fixed that for you...

 

[plain_n_simple]

Thank you and God bless you Matt Wade

 

[12strings]

...there are only different levels manifested, because of the different levels of belief and acceptance by the multitudes who have been baptized in the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost can only do, and WILL only do, that which the person is willing and able to allow.

If tongues are present, that is because that is a choice. If tongues are rejected, that is a choice. If laying on of hands is practiced, it is because it is accepted, If people reject having hands laid on them, so be it, too!

This can go on forever. The Spirit can only do what the person is willing to be amenable to having done in and through them. So, there are probably MANY levels of what the Spirit does in and through others!

I have found God to be a respecter of those who love and follow Him. Like the artist of Christ at the Door portrays, the handle for the door is on the side of the believer, not the side on which Jesus stands and knocks.

We must first be willing to be indwelled with the presence of the Holy Ghost, and then trusting enough, in faith, to allow him to manifest those gifts and loose the range of those gifts within each of us. For instance, you can't have the gift of preaching, if you don't believe in His power to indwell the preacher and manifest the spoken word through that person (plus you must believe in the calling to preach)! SELAH!!!

So would you agree or disagree with the following statements:

1. A person could desire and believe in tongues, but God not grant that gift for some reason.

2. A person could desire and believe and pray for God to heal someone, and God decides not to heal the person.

3. If a person does not manifest tongues, it is due to some deficiency of faith on their part, such that we may say a person who does not manifest tongues has less faith and godliness than someone who does.

(for me, I would say 1 & 2 could be true, 3 would be false).