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Do you think God bluffs?
- Thread starter Skandelon
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No I don't. I just think everyone I have ever talked to knows more than you- young and old.
Many of us will tell you that you are the most ignorant person we have ever conversed with.
Webdog is smart. Skandelon is very smart. Quantum is intelligent.
But you are beneath them so far that it is not measurable.
But the problem, Winman, is that you are SO arrogant that you cannot even CONSIDER that you are that ignorant. So you are invincibly ignorant.
But Winman, I believe things that men who are much older and immeasurably wiser than you believe.
You just started studying Calvinism 2-3 years ago- that's how far behind you are. I am MUCH older than you theologically and Scripturally. I have studied these matters for over 15 years.
The fact that you are old and this ignorant is not a mark for you- it is a mark against you.
I believe what the top theologians in the history of the WORLD have believed.
You believe bull crud that you just made up.
And the SAD, SAD fact is that you are OLD. You will not live long enough to grow up mentally.
You will die, barring a miracle, an unorthodox, theologically illiterate old man who never understood some of the most basic tenets of the Christian Faith because he was ignorant enough to think that the Holy Spirit has taught him things that are not so. He was ignorant enough to think that the Holy Spirit imparts truth via osmosis to people who are so arrogant and lazy that they think they do not need to study.
He DOESN'T.
But as long as you ignorantly think he does, you will remain an infant when it comes to theology and Bible doctrine.
You do not know what you are talking about here. I was raised a Free Will Baptist. When I was a teenager, about 15, I used some of the same dumb arguments you employ.
But as I studied the Scripture more and more I found things in it that others have historically believed as well.
And then, after finding that hundreds of Bible truths had already been embraced by wiser men than myself, a light went off in my mind- I learned something you will probably never learn.
The reason there is a such thing as Orthodoxy is because thousands upon thousands of other Christians studied these things and came to the same conclusions I have come to.
I am not all-wise. Their discoveries are helpful. They believe these thing BECAUSE THEY ARE IN THE BIBLE.
They did not do like you and pull them out of some unpleasant orifice. They found them in the Word of God and tested them by the thoughts of thousands and thousands of other Christians who ALSO found those things in the Bible.
But you are so backwards that you think that you do not need them and that you can just pull crud out of God knows where which NO reputable Christian group has EVER believed and that's perfectly OK.
There is no LIMIT to your arrogance. It is beyond measure.
This passage does not mean that no one needs any teachers at all for anything, Winman. No one with half a semester of hermeneutics would interpret that passage that way. It means that these people do not need to be taught the things that give them assurance of salvation, that will cause them to endure to the end. That is the context, Winman, you DANGEROUS old man.
This verse does not contradict I Corinthians 12:28 and Ephesians 4:11.
GOOD HEAVENS man I have NEVER seen someone who has such a poor grasp on Scripture!
I hope to Heaven that your pastor does not let you teach a class.
You can't get Scripture right!
Timothy was Paul's son because he had been trained by Paul!
Not only so but Paul told he and Titus to TRAIN other men who will be able to teach others ALSO!
How is it POSSIBLE that a man such as yourself can be SO wrong about SO MUCH??
You ought to never speak on heavy matters again. If you think this passage teaches that no one needs training and thus contradicts the PLAIN teaching to this VERY SAME MAN that he needs to TRAIN others who will need to TRAIN others you ought to NEVER speak on heavy matters again.
You are deadly dangerous to any young Christian or any one who might think you have any theological sense whatsoever.
Those are not wise remarks.
Perhaps those who believe differently believe the same thing about you, but are wise enough not to post it.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Post 82 has been reported for breaking BB rules #3 AND #4.
You are probably right- because if people can believe this nameless theology that you guys have pulled out of the air which has no roots in either Scripture or Church History- people can believe all kinds of weird and baseless mess.
So you are probably right. There are probably people who peruse this board who are ignorant enough to believe that one who clings to orthodox theology which is based upon fair interpretations of Scripture and is backed by the greatest theologians this world has ever known is dangerous.
It is highly probable.
And I am certain, knowing your good and fair nature, that you reported post 72 as well.
There is a mentality that most teens go through:
It is "I am always right and the rest of the world is wrong."
Usually they grow out of it when they get into college. Perhaps in this case I am wrong.
What's hilarious about this quote is that the one saying it is an old man who has YET to grow out of it.
It is an old man who LITERALLY has no nameable theology because he LITERALLY thinks all theologies are wrong and the ONE HE MADE UP FOR HIMSELF is right.
Absolutely hilarious!:laugh:
I don't agree with Winman in everything, but I will fight to the death for him to have the right to believe in it. It is highly valued principle that
Baptists throughout ages have held dearly to called "soul liberty." You can laugh if you will, but he has the right to hold to his beliefs, as you do yours. You need to respect that, not mock it.
The name of my theology is Biblical. I don't follow a man either. But you would mock me as well because I don't fit into your little camps of Calvinism or Arminiam. Many don't, and they don't have to. They base their beliefs as they understand the Bible to be so. To mock that is not only rude, but against the rules of this board. Some respect would be in order.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Actually no, because post 72 is simply your own words repeated back at ya.
I also didn't report your original post calling us laymen all ignorant and arrogant because we haven't recieved your level of education in theology. I could go back and do that if you'd like.
I also didn't report your original post calling us laymen all ignorant and arrogant because we haven't recieved your level of education in theology. I could go back and do that if you'd like.
Baptists in history have never believed the VAST majority of this weird mess that Winman adheres to. Most of the early Baptists were Calvinists, just for the record.
And you can fight for his belief if you wish- you can fight for heresy if you wish- but that doesn't change the quality of his belief. Frankly, your willingness to fight for it is meaningless.
You don't have to be an Arminian or a Calvinist- but if you want to be credible at all among thinking people then you will not just pull your beliefs out of the air and interpret passages of Scripture, like you do (the Job passages for example), in a way that NO CHRISTIAN OF ANY REPUTATION IN HISTORY WOULD EVEN CONSIDER TO BE POSSIBLY ACCURATE.
This is the problem with Independent Baptists, imo. They tend to not care what the Church has historically believed. They tend to not care if no one in the history of the church has ever seen a passage the way they do.
This is probably why you wish to defend Winman. Aren't you both of this vein?
menageriekeeper
Active Member
LOL that is like saying that most of the early Christians were Catholic! We've rejected some of the old interpretations of scripture for a reason.
Look up the history of soul liberty.
I would fight for the liberty of a J.W. to have the right to his beliefs. In a more broader term it is religious tolerance or freedom of religion. Please tell me that you don't believe in that. Do you believe that Obama should impose one state religion on America and every one of us should submit to his religion with no freedom to believe otherwise.
Remember the reign of Bloody Mary Tudor in England. There was no soul liberty there. Baptists were the ones that fought for soul liberty. Historically it has been their fight.
I said at the beginning of my post that I do not believe everything Winman believes. I stressed that respect is what is expected on this board. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs without sarcasm and mockery.
No. I didn't say that.
I said laymen become dangerous when they become arrogant enough to think they can tackle massively complex matters without training.
Most Christian laymen are humble enough to know this.
Some are not.
And there are SOME who are geniuses and are able to tackle such matters without much training. But they are few and far between.
Arrogance among the unlearned is a dangerous thing.
It is like a carpenter attempting brain surgery just because he knows how to use a buzz saw.
All of them were Catholic so it is actually YOUR comment that is laughable.
Being Catholic is a good thing if you know what catholic means- which is another reason you probably shouldn't be speaking on this matter.
It was a breakdown in theology that led to Arminianism among Baptists. But what is worse is this stuff that has been made up from nothing- this nameless theology that some of you espouse which has NO historical roots in the Christian church.
Arrogance with any person--learned or unlearned--is a dangerous thing.
The proud and haughty man, "scoffer" is his name; He works in the arrogance of pride. (Proverbs 21:24) WEB
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I appreciate folks standing up for me, but it is not necessary. I was originally responding to Luke's post #60 where he brought up my name without cause. I had made just one response on this thread and did not challenge anyone's personal beliefs. But Luke felt a need to insult me anyway.
That's OK, I can handle Luke. He not only does not listen to others, he does not listen to himself, if he did he would be ashamed. He is constantly calling others who disagree with him ignornant, heretical, you name it.
Luke, you are one of those fellows that just has to learn the hard way. God is not mocked, whatsoever a man sows he reaps. You just keep on insulting folks, and someday you will insult the wrong person at the wrong time. This is not a threat, I wish you no harm whatsoever. But I can tell you, if you continue in your ways you are going to learn a hard lesson someday.
That's OK, I can handle Luke. He not only does not listen to others, he does not listen to himself, if he did he would be ashamed. He is constantly calling others who disagree with him ignornant, heretical, you name it.
Luke, you are one of those fellows that just has to learn the hard way. God is not mocked, whatsoever a man sows he reaps. You just keep on insulting folks, and someday you will insult the wrong person at the wrong time. This is not a threat, I wish you no harm whatsoever. But I can tell you, if you continue in your ways you are going to learn a hard lesson someday.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
If that's the case, then you need to go back to school and learn to write clearly and more importantly, respectfully, so people won't ignore your posts out of hand. You know, I think you are the only person in my years on the BB that I've reported twice. And I haven't reported more times than I have fingers. That hopefully, along with DHK is saying, will give you a clue.
But you... your running out of time to learn, aren't you Winman?
You are still, by your own admission an infant theologically. You said you just started looking into Calvinism 2-3 years ago. So you are still VERY wet behind the ears, aren't you.
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