Doctrine of Grace/Calvinisim In Hymns and Songs

[npetreley]

What part of those lyrics do you think I don't believe? "Forced"? If you go to cyberhymnal.org, you will find a different word in the lyrics:

’Twas the same love that spread the feast
That sweetly drew us in;
Else we had still refused to taste,
And perished in our sin.

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/h/s/hsweetaw.htm

That's not what Isaac Watts originally wrote. Yes, I'm perfectly aware of the fact that people are free to change the lyrics of songs in the public domain, and many do in order to change what offends them. People do that even to the Bible.

So if you were a feminist, you wouldn't be a hypocrite if you studied a Bible where the words were changed to remove fact that God is portrayed as male and Father. Likewise, you wouldn't be a hypocrite to sing this rewritten version of the song.

But you would be a hypocrite to sing the original.

 

[Jarthur001]

What wondrous love is this?
by William WalkerCALVINIST​

What wondrous love is this, O my soul, O my soul!
What wondrous love is this, O my soul!
What wondrous love is this that caused the Lord of bliss
To bear the dreadful curse for my soul, for my soul,
To bear the dreadful curse for my soul.

When I was sinking down, sinking down, sinking down,
When I was sinking down, sinking down,
When I was sinking down beneath God’s righteous frown,
Christ laid aside His crown for my soul, for my soul,
Christ laid aside His crown for my soul.

To God and to the Lamb, I will sing, I will sing;
To God and to the Lamb, I will sing.
To God and to the Lamb Who is the great “I Am”;
While millions join the theme, I will sing, I will sing;
While millions join the theme, I will sing.

And when from death I’m free, I’ll sing on, I’ll sing on;
And when from death I’m free, I’ll sing on.
And when from death I’m free, I’ll sing and joyful be;
And through eternity, I’ll sing on, I’ll sing on;
And through eternity, I’ll sing on

 

[Jarthur001]

There is a fountain​

There is a fountain filled with blood drawn from Emmanuel’s veins;
And sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains.
Lose all their guilty stains, lose all their guilty stains;
And sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains.

The dying thief rejoiced to see that fountain in his day;
And there have I, though vile as he, washed all my sins away.
Washed all my sins away, washed all my sins away;
And there have I, though vile as he, washed all my sins away.

Dear dying Lamb, Thy precious blood shall never lose its power
Till all the ransomed church of God be saved, to sin no more.
Be saved, to sin no more, be saved, to sin no more;
Till all the ransomed church of God be saved, to sin no more.

E’er since, by faith, I saw the stream Thy flowing wounds supply,
Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be till I die.
And shall be till I die, and shall be till I die;
Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be till I die.

Then in a nobler, sweeter song, I’ll sing Thy power to save,
When this poor lisping, stammering tongue lies silent in the grave.
Lies silent in the grave, lies silent in the grave;
When this poor lisping, stammering tongue lies silent in the grave.

Lord, I believe Thou hast prepared, unworthy though I be,
For me a blood bought free reward, a golden harp for me!
’Tis strung and tuned for endless years, and formed by power divine,
To sound in God the Father’s ears no other name but Thine.

 

[Tom Butler]

I just love it when I hear folks who I know are not Calvinists sing the second verse of

"In Loving Kindness, Jesus Came" (Words and Music by Charles Gabriel)

He called me long before I heard,
Before my sinful heart was stirred,
But when I took him at his word,
Forgiv'n, He lifted me.

P. 542 Baptist Hymnal 1991

 

[Jarthur001]

NOTE...

There is a lot of great wording in this Hymn

I like the way the writer worded this......Notice the 1st line.."Fixed my choice"
That is a great way of saying it..no? There are a few more very well worded lines.

O happy day​

O happy day, that fixed my choice
On Thee, my Savior and my God!
Well may this glowing heart rejoice,
And tell its raptures all abroad.

Refrain

Happy day, happy day, when Jesus washed my sins away!
He taught me how to watch and pray, and live rejoicing every day
Happy day, happy day, when Jesus washed my sins away.

O happy bond, that seals my vows
To Him Who merits all my love!
Let cheerful anthems fill His house,
While to that sacred shrine I move.

Refrain

’Tis done: the great transaction’s done!
I am the Lord’s and He is mine;
He drew me, and I followed on;
Charmed to confess the voice divine.

Refrain

Now rest, my long divided heart,
Fixed on this blissful center, rest.
Here have I found a nobler part;
Here heavenly pleasures fill my breast.

Refrain

High heaven, that heard the solemn vow,
That vow renewed shall daily hear,
Till in life’s latest hour I bow
And bless in death a bond so dear.

Refrain

 

[LeBuick]

I recommend that free-willers remain silent during songs like Amazing Grace, too. If you don't believe it, don't sing it, or you're being hypocritical.​

Do you know the story behind Amazing Grace? If so, what does it have to do with predestination or free will?

 

[pinoybaptist]

Do you know the story behind Amazing Grace? If so, what does it have to do with predestination or free will?

What it has to do with predestination is that the author, John Newton, believed in predestination, election, and foreknowledge.

 

[Jarthur001]

A slaveship anchored off the African coast. (Bibliothèque nationale, Paris) from Bronz, et. al, The Challenge of America (Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1968), p. 155)
I used to think America's favorite hymn, "Amazing Grace" was a bit overdone: "... that saved a wretch like me." Really now!

But the author was a wretch, a moral pariah. While a new believer around 1750, John Newton had commanded an English slave ship.

You know what that meant. Ships would make the first leg of their voyage from England nearly empty until they would anchor off the African coast. There tribal chiefs would deliver to the Europeans stockades full of men and women, captured in raids and wars against other tribes. Buyers would select the finest specimens, which would be bartered for weapons, ammunition, metal, liquor, trinkets, and cloth. Then the captives would be loaded aboard, packed for sailing. They were chained below decks to prevent suicides, laid side by side to save space, row after row, one after another, until the vessel was laden with as many as 600 units of human cargo.


Slaves were "packed" in ships for the voyage across the Atlantic. (The Granger Collection) in Peter Wood, The Seafarers: The Spanish Main (Time-Life Books, 1979), p. 63)
Captains sought a fast voyage across the Atlantic's infamous "middle passage," hoping to preserve as much as their cargo as possible, yet mortality sometimes ran 20% or higher. When an outbreak of smallpox or dysentery occurred, the stricken were cast overboard. Once they arrived in the New World, blacks were traded for sugar and molasses to manufacture rum, which the ships would carry to England for the final leg of their "triangle trade." Then off to Africa for yet another round. John Newton transported more than a few shiploads of the 6 million African slaves brought to the Americas in the 18th century.

At sea by the age of eleven, he was forced to enlist on a British man-of-war seven years later. Recaptured after desertion, the disgraced sailor was exchanged to the crew of a slave ship bound for Africa.

It was a book he found on board--Thomas à Kempis' Imitation of Christ--which sowed the seeds of his conversion. When a ship nearly foundered in a storm, he gave his life to Christ. Later he was promoted to captain of a slave ship. Commanding a slave vessel seems like a strange place to find a new Christian. But at last the inhuman aspects of the business began to pall on him, and he left the sea for good.

While working as a tide surveyor he studied for the ministry, and for the last 43 years of his life preached the gospel in Olney and London. At 82, Newton said, "My memory is nearly gone, but I remember two things, that I am a great sinner, and that Christ is a great Saviour." No wonder he understood so well grace--the completely undeserved mercy and favor of God.

Newton's tombstone reads, "John Newton, Clerk, once an infidel and libertine, a servant of slaves in Africa, was, by the rich mercy of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, preserved, restored, pardoned, and appointed to preach the faith he had long labored to destroy." But a far greater testimony outlives Newton in the most famous of the hundreds of hymns he wrote:

 

[Brother Bob]

John Newton;
He spent the next nine years mostly in Liverpool, studying Hebrew and Greek and mingling with Whitefiel Wesley, and the Nonconformists.

 

[LeBuick]

What it has to do with predestination is that the author, John Newton, believed in predestination, election, and foreknowledge.

He may have had this belief but where in the song does he reference it?

 

[npetreley]

He may have had this belief but where in the song does he reference it?

That was my bad. I mistakenly assumed that it is common knowledge that he believed in election. The song does not blatanly espouse election, but yes, the song takes the tone of election. More so if you know about the author. "I once was lost but now I'm found" is not something that turns on our decision. Free willers can come up with a twisted explanation of how the two may coincide, but this was clearly not the author's intent.

Nevertheless, as I said above, since you can twist Amazing Grace into a song that embraces both free will and election, I offered another example by Isaac Watts that affords no such reinterpretation. People actually had to rewrite Isaac Watts words to get the election out of them.

 

[LeBuick]

Free willers can come up with a twisted explanation of how the two may coincide, but this was clearly not the author's intent..

Don't you love the Lord, how he can take twisted theology and make a great hymn for the ages that all can enjoy... :wavey:

 

[Jarthur001]

Don't you love the Lord, how he can take twisted theology and make a great hymn for the ages that all can enjoy... :wavey:

Hello Lebuick,

I need to ask you. What in grace theology is twisted? And ...please give good Bible reason for saying this. Unless this post was just a drive by shoting off of the mouth with nothing to base it on. If that be the case nevermind. Other wise please tell what is twisted about grace.


In Christ...James

 

[npetreley]

Don't you love the Lord, how he can take twisted theology and make a great hymn for the ages that all can enjoy...

You're not making friends with the other free willers here. If you think that Amazing Grace is twisted theology, then I assume (because you don't agree with it) that you are admitting it communicates election. In that case, you're agreeing with me that free-willers shouldn't sing it because it would be hypocritical.

 

[LeBuick]

I was referring to Calvinist as twisted theology but I guess the joke flopped. Sorry.

 

[Blammo]

I was referring to Calvinist as twisted theology but I guess the joke flopped. Sorry.

They know what you meant. This intentional misunderstanding of what you said is typical from these two.

 

[npetreley]

I was referring to Calvinist as twisted theology but I guess the joke flopped. Sorry.

It didn't flop, I just flip-flopped it back at you.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Straight from my PB Hymn Book

HAIL, SOVEREIGN LOVE
(Jehoiada Brewer, 1752-1817)

Hail, sovereign love that first began The scheme to rescue fallen man;
Hail, matchless, free, eternal grace, That gave my soul a hiding place.
Against the God that rules the sky I fought with hand uplifted high;
Despised His rich, abounding grace, Too proud to seek a hiding place.

Enwrapt in thick Egyptian night, And fond of darkness more than light;
Madly I ran the sinful race, Secure without a hiding place.
But thus th' eternal counsel ran, "Almighty love arrest that man,"
I felt the arrows of distress, And found I had no hiding place.

Indignant justice stood in view, To Sinai's fi'ry mount I flew;
But justice cried with frowning face, "This mountain is no hiding place."
Ere long a heav'nly voice I heard, and mercy's angel form appeared;
Who led me on, with gentle pace, To Jesus as my hiding place.

Should storms of thund'ring vengeance roll, and shake the earth from pole to pole,
No flaming bolt shall daunt my face, for Jesus is my hiding place.
A few more rolling suns at most, Will land me safe on Canaan's coast,
Where I shall sing the song of grace and my glor'ous hiding place.

 

[pinoybaptist]

From Isaac Watts

TO GOD THE ONLY WISE
(Isaac Watts, 1674-1748)
(Aaron Williams, 1731-1776)

To God the only wise, Our Savior and our King,
Let all the saints below the skies Their humble praises bring.

Tis His almighty love, His counsel, and His care,
Preserves us safe from sin and death, And ev'ry hurtful snare.

He will present His saints, unblemished and complete,
Before the gory of His face, With joy divinely great.

Then all the chosen race Shall meet around the throne,
Shall bless the conduct of His grace, And make His wonders known.

To our Redeemer, God, Wisdom and pow'r belong,
Immortal crowns of majesty, and everlasting songs.

 

[Jarthur001]

They know what you meant. This intentional misunderstanding of what you said is typical from these two.

If I be one of the 2, this is called making things clear before it is addressed. If it is a joke, there would be no need to address it. Thanks for making it clear.

One way or another I would have never said any thing if the "twisted" was not in there.

Speaking of being clear. If for some reason I read to much into this and I'm not one of the 2, never mind.