Doctrine verses "Versions"??

[Plain ol' Ralph]

Originally posted by natters:
Plain ol' Ralph said "You must define that "evil" and not presume when it comes to the Word of God, or didn't you know that?"

Oh, I see. So pulling verses out of various versions and using them to point out imperfections in said versions is dependent only on proper interpretation of said verses which can only be provided by YOU? Why should I accept YOUR authority in matters of interpretation?

Read the title to the thread: Doctrine VERSES "versions"!!

When a version reads profusely against clear doctrine, that is where that doctrine points directly against the version from which it is found.

God is never deceived, neither is He ever found guilty of deceiving men and leaving them unsure of life; so the NasV and the Nkjv are both doctrinally messed up!

 

[Plain ol' Ralph]

Originally posted by TC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Plain ol' Ralph:
You wonder why we "haven't"? We have, you reject, we still stand.

The verses are found ion context and harmony with the entirety of Scripture, that CANNOT be said about the mv's, and still be telling the Truth.

NasV: God is "deceived" in Ps 78:36

Nkjv: God is equated with the deceptive practice of the wicked, in CONTEXT?!? Job 24

The KJB is accurate.

Jesus spoke of people like those referenced in Ps 78:36 in Mark 7:6-7:

6 And He said to them, "Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS,
BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
7
BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,
TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'

You know that, but you still pull phrase out of context and use it to slander others. Isn't there a commandment that says "thou shalt not bear false witness."? </font>[/QUOTE]Just what in the devil are you talking about? I really doubt you even know.

I have yet to pull any verse out of context. Look at the versions referenced.

You too play this silly little game and surmise your notion that is full of suspicion towards another, and you want to refer to bearing a false witness?

 

[natters]

Plain ol' Ralph said "When a version reads profusely against clear doctrine, that is where that doctrine points directly against the version from which it is found."

Like Isa 45:7, where God creates evil.

Ralph, you don't get it. Doctrine doesn't come from text. Doctrine comes from interpretation of text. By what authority should we accept your interpretation on these passages?

 

[Scott J]

The last time you tried this POR I pointed out that the KJV says that God does not repent but also that He repented. You never answered this fact.

BTW, any method of explanation you use becomes valid to explain the problems you cited above in the NASB and NKJV.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Plain ol' Ralph:
Scott, you have the Originals to back up that prolific statement?

No, Why do you insist on straw man arguments? Do you have the originals to back up any of the non-sense you post?

Look at the Harmony of Scripture, that best explains the Canon,

Actually I would place apostolic authority first since Jesus promised that the Spirit would reveal all things to them. Did He ever tell us to find writings that are in harmony and accept them as scripture?

which BTW, explains BEST why we should not divert and depend on anything other than the KJB for the English rendition, except where a dictionary is needed, but that applies anywhere, anytime.

POR, How many points of disharmony does it take? There are several in the KJV.

They do have reasonable explanations but that does not mean that they do not exist.... same as any other version of the Bible available today.

 

[Plain ol' Ralph]

Originally posted by natters:
Plain ol' Ralph said "Look at the Harmony of Scripture, that best explains the Canon, which BTW, explains BEST why we should not divert and depend on anything other than the KJB for the English rendition"

What??? Explain.

I see I am not dealing with some one of the rational aspect of this discussion, learn what harmony of the Scripture means, then speak.

 

[natters]

Plain ol' Ralph, I understand harmony of the Scriptures. I don't understand how harmony of the Scripture and canon prove KJV-onlyism. So, explain.

 

[Plain ol' Ralph]

Originally posted by Scott J:
The last time you tried this POR I pointed out that the KJV says that God does not repent but also that He repented. You never answered this fact.

BTW, any method of explanation you use becomes valid to explain the problems you cited above in the NASB and NKJV.

Look at the context of the passages, then learn when God repented and when He does not repent. Actually, I am surprized that some one of your intellect would reduce his working knowledge to such a low degree to suggest this as soem coherent fact of reason.

 

[natters]

Plain ol' Ralph - your responses are dependent on interpretation. By what authority should we accept YOUR interpretation in these instances?

 

[TC]

Originally posted by Plain ol' Ralph:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Plain ol' Ralph:
You wonder why we "haven't"? We have, you reject, we still stand.

The verses are found ion context and harmony with the entirety of Scripture, that CANNOT be said about the mv's, and still be telling the Truth.

NasV: God is "deceived" in Ps 78:36

Nkjv: God is equated with the deceptive practice of the wicked, in CONTEXT?!? Job 24

The KJB is accurate.

Jesus spoke of people like those referenced in Ps 78:36 in Mark 7:6-7:

6 And He said to them, "Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS,
BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
7
BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,
TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'

You know that, but you still pull phrase out of context and use it to slander others. Isn't there a commandment that says "thou shalt not bear false witness."? </font>[/QUOTE]Just what in the devil are you talking about? I really doubt you even know.

I have yet to pull any verse out of context. Look at the versions referenced.

You too play this silly little game and surmise your notion that is full of suspicion towards another, and you want to refer to bearing a false witness?

</font>[/QUOTE]Yes you did pull a phrase out of context and used it to say the NASB teaches that God is deceived. Here is the passage in context along with the KJV so everyone can see that what you say is not true. The KJV and the NASB totally agree even though the words are slightly different.

Ps 78:22-39 NASB
22
Because they did not believe in God
And did not trust in His salvation.
23
Yet He commanded the clouds above
And opened the doors of heaven;
24
He rained down manna upon them to eat
And gave them food from heaven.
25
Man did eat the bread of angels;
He sent them food in abundance.
26
He caused the east wind to blow in the heavens
And by His power He directed the south wind.
27
When He rained meat upon them like the dust,
Even winged fowl like the sand of the seas,
28
Then He let them fall in the midst of their camp,
Round about their dwellings.
29
So they ate and were well filled,
And their desire He gave to them.
30
Before they had satisfied their desire,
While their food was in their mouths,
31
The anger of God rose against them
And killed some of their stoutest ones,
And subdued the choice men of Israel.
32
In spite of all this they still sinned
And did not believe in His wonderful works.
33
So He brought their days to an end in futility
And their years in sudden terror.
34
When He killed them, then they sought Him,
And returned and searched diligently for God;
35
And they remembered that God was their rock,
And the Most High God their Redeemer.
36
But they deceived Him with their mouth
And lied to Him with their tongue.
37
For their heart was not steadfast toward Him,
Nor were they faithful in His covenant.
38
But He, being compassionate, forgave their iniquity and did not destroy them;
And often He restrained His anger
And did not arouse all His wrath.
39
Thus He remembered that they were but flesh,
A wind that passes and does not return.


Ps 78:22-39 KJV
22 Because they believed not in God, and trusted not in his salvation:
23 Though he had commanded the clouds from above, and opened the doors of heaven,
24 And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven.
25 Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full.
26 He caused an east wind to blow in the heaven: and by his power he brought in the south wind.
27 He rained flesh also upon them as dust, and feathered fowls like as the sand of the sea:
28 And he let it fall in the midst of their camp, round about their habitations.
29 So they did eat, and were well filled: for he gave them their own desire;
30 They were not estranged from their lust. But while their meat was yet in their mouths,
31 The wrath of God came upon them, and slew the fattest of them, and smote down the chosen men of Israel.
32 For all this they sinned still, and believed not for his wondrous works.
33 Therefore their days did he consume in vanity, and their years in trouble.
34 When he slew them, then they sought him: and they returned and enquired early after God.
35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.
36 Nevertheless they did flatter him with their mouth, and they lied unto him with their tongues.
37 For their heart was not right with him, neither were they stedfast in his covenant.
38 But he, being full of compassion, forgave their iniquity, and destroyed them not: yea, many a time turned he his anger away, and did not stir up all his wrath.
39 For he remembered that they were but flesh; a wind that passeth away, and cometh not again.


The only way you could beleive that God was deceived (NASB word)is if you beleive that God was truly flattered (KJV word) by their words when there heart was far from him (God).

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Plain ol' Ralph:
I see I am not dealing with some one of the rational aspect of this discussion, learn what harmony of the Scripture means, then speak.

I'm your huckleberry.

I know what harmony of Scripture means and I know that I can use the methods you use against other versions to demonstrate disharmony in the KJV.

 

[Plain ol' Ralph]

Originally posted by Scott J:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Plain ol' Ralph:
Scott, you have the Originals to back up that prolific statement?

No, Why do you insist on straw man arguments? Do you have the originals to back up any of the non-sense you post?

Look at the Harmony of Scripture, that best explains the Canon,

Actually I would place apostolic authority first since Jesus promised that the Spirit would reveal all things to them. Did He ever tell us to find writings that are in harmony and accept them as scripture?

which BTW, explains BEST why we should not divert and depend on anything other than the KJB for the English rendition, except where a dictionary is needed, but that applies anywhere, anytime.

POR, How many points of disharmony does it take? There are several in the KJV.

They do have reasonable explanations but that does not mean that they do not exist.... same as any other version of the Bible available today. </font>[/QUOTE]I hope you read your reply over again, and get the same horrific response of uncontrollable laughter as I did!

 

[Scott J]

In other words you are going to evade again.

 

[Plain ol' Ralph]

Originally posted by Scott J:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Plain ol' Ralph:
I see I am not dealing with some one of the rational aspect of this discussion, learn what harmony of the Scripture means, then speak.

I'm your huckleberry.

I know what harmony of Scripture means and I know that I can use the methods you use against other versions to demonstrate disharmony in the KJV. </font>[/QUOTE]No you can't, there is no disharmony in the KJB, only what you insist upon and is nowhere, no-how anything resembling honesty or fact.

But then you might be the one who would demonstrate disharmony afterall.

 

[Plain ol' Ralph]

Originally posted by Scott J:
In other words you are going to evade again.

Evade what? You made some of the most outlandish statements I have ever read!!! And do you rerally expect me to respond to that any

other way?

 

[Plain ol' Ralph]

To "flatter" some one, especially God, does not carry the same connotation as saying that God is "deceived" as we find it in the Nasv, you even admit the words are different, I would agree, TOTALLY diferent in meaning to derive any doctrine, excepting FALSE doctrine.

 

[TC]

Originally posted by Plain ol' Ralph:
To "flatter" some one, especially God, does not carry the same connotation as saying that God is "deceived" as we find it in the Nasv, you even admit the words are different, I would agree, TOTALLY diferent in meaning to derive any doctrine, excepting FALSE doctrine.

But the NASB does not say that God was deceived. It say that they deceived him with their mouth - just as the KJV says they did flatter him with their mouth. Was God truly deceived or flattered? No, but the people told God what they thought he wanted to hear even though they didn't mean it. You really have no point. You are just grasping at whatever straws you can find to boast your opinion.

 

[AVL1984]

Flattery is a type of deception...but don't tell POR that...he'll deny it. Either way he'll twist the scriptures to fit his warped theology.

 

[Bro Tony]

There can be no discussion or even a legitimate debate with an irrational person. You guys should have learned by now to ignore POR, because he clearly does not know what he is talking about and will just use ad-hominem attacks against you. You all really ought to wait until there is at least a KJVOist who is rational.

Bro Tony

 

[AVL1984]

Very true, Bro Tony.