Doers/Fulfillers Of The Law

[Iconoclast]

I disagree. Whatever else Paul is teaching in Romans 2, he is certainly laying a foundation for his conclusion in Romans 3 that none are righteous, all stand condemned and under the wrath of God and justification is by grace through faith and not by works of the law.

To the extent Gentiles (or Jews) do the deeds of the law based on their conscience, it is incomplete and falls short of God’s requirements. They are still condemned and can only be justified by grace through faith.

That is the very point Paul is making in these passages. Any belief that anyone can be justified apart from grace through faith is contrary to the context.

peace to you

You and Austin have it correct as you read the whole passage, not just a few words.
Vs.17-23 show and explain how the works show an obedience or a disobedience based on new birth or absence of it.
For any to suggest people are saved by doing good is to not grasp the grace aspect of the gospel.Divorced from New birth it is a false gospel of works.

 

[1689Dave]

13 …the doers of the law shall be justified...Ro 2

20 ...by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified... Ro 3
How do you harmonize the verses?

@canadyjd:

How do you harmonize the verses?

peace to you

.....................................................

Short answer, this is apples and oranges, not a contradiction. Every heavenly born child of God is by nature a doer of the law:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

...they fulfill the law because God has put the golden rule (Matthew 7:12) in their heart:

8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

...and I'll leave off there.

The Law cannot save. But the saved will live according to the Law by nature of the New Birth.

 

[kyredneck]

You and Austin have it correct as you read the whole passage, not just a few words.
Vs.17-23 show and explain how the works show an obedience or a disobedience based on new birth or absence of it.
For any to suggest people are saved by doing good is to not grasp the grace aspect of the gospel.Divorced from New birth it is a false gospel of works.

It's really deceitful of you to portray this like I'm promoting works salvation.

Shame on you.

 

[kyredneck]

The Law cannot save. But the saved will live according to the Law by nature of the New Birth.

"8. We believe that good works, obedience to the commands of God, are well pleasing in His sight and should be maintained; but, they are to be considered as evidence of a gracious state and not a condition of eternal salvation. (Ephesians 2:10; Hebrews 13:16; James 2:17-18; Galatians 5:22-23)"
Belief – Lexington Primitive Baptist Church (lexpbc.org)

 

[tyndale1946]

The Law cannot save. But the saved will live according to the Law by nature of the New Birth.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

I know some would say this is teaching a works doctrine... And they are right the works of God, working the heart of man, the work God performed... Alone... Question... How can a unregenerate, natural, man perform the attribute of God?... He can't!... Only a changed man can!... Brother Glen

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

 

[kyredneck]

@canadyjd By Paul's standard, have you fulfilled the law?

@canadyjd evidently doesn't want to answer the question (I've asked three times).

Would anyone want to reply?:

By Paul's standard, have you fulfilled the law?


....and YES! I have fulfilled the law by Paul's standard.

 

[1689Dave]

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

I know some would say this is teaching a works doctrine... And they are right the works of God, working the heart of man, the work God performed... Alone... Question... How can a unregenerate, natural, man perform the attribute of God?... He can't!... Only a changed man can!... Brother Glen

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

People doing this by nature of the New Birth were already saved. These are works of love that come from our new nature.

Those who go around sucking on lemons and doing these works legalistically are devoid of love being their motive.

 

[1689Dave]

Here's my present understanding. I have Christ's (God's) imputed righteousness. And all the rewards this includes. But in thanksgiving, I seek a Holy Lifestyle in thought and deed. Knowing that my own works are inferior but atoned for in Christ, and made acceptable by Him.

 

[canadyjd]

Upon further reflection on the passage, I’m beginning to think the assertion in 2:15-17 (concerning the rendering of eternal life) is what a Jewish person would think about the relationship between works of the law and judgement which is different from Paul’s conclusion found in Chapter 3.

In verses 2:1 and 2:3, Paul uses the phrase “O’ Man” which is a rhetorical device used to set up the following questions/statements. You see the condemnation of hypocritical beliefs verses actions; of trusting circumcision or condemning Gentiles for not being Jewish.

It is here this comment concerning rendering to each man according to his works, concerning his conscience and so on is found.

Paul may be stating what was the common belief among the Jewish community at the time.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

@canadyjd evidently doesn't want to answer the question (I've asked three times).

Would anyone want to reply?:

By Paul's standard, have you fulfilled the law?


....and YES! I have fulfilled the law by Paul's standard.

I haven’t answered because I don’t want the OP to be about me.

I see no benefit to anonymously going on a public forum and claiming certain levels of godliness and comparing myself to others.

peace to you

 

[kyredneck]

I haven’t answered because I don’t want the OP to be about me.

I see no benefit to anonymously going on a public forum and claiming certain levels of godliness and comparing myself to others.

peace to you

Good grief.

IMO if you're not a fulfiller of the law by Paul's standard.....well, something very wrong there, suffice it to say....

I figured you wouldn't own up to it because being a 'fulfiller of the law' (loving your neighbor) would be synonymous with being a 'doer of the law', and you're never going to admit to something as SIMPLE as that.

 

[canadyjd]

Good grief.

IMO if you're not a fulfiller of the law by Paul's standard.....well, something very wrong there, suffice it to say....

I figured you wouldn't own up to it because being a 'fulfiller of the law' (loving your neighbor) would be synonymous with being a 'doer of the law', and you're never going to admit to something as SIMPLE as that.

Good grief back at you

I’m not going to let you make this OP about me.

I’m done

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[kyredneck]

Good grief back at you

I’m not going to let you make this OP about me.

I’m done

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

my apologies to you, I can see how you feel that way, it wasn’t my intent, I addressed you in the OP because I told you I was going to start a thread on the apparent contradiction in the other thread. My point is that every child of God is a ‘doer/fulfiller of the law’ because of the heart God has given them.

 

[Iconoclast]

It's really deceitful of you to portray this like I'm promoting works salvation.

Shame on you.

Hold on Kyred,
My post should not be offensive to anyone holding the biblical relationship between saving faith, and works of faith.Why are you so touchy on this question?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It's really deceitful of you to portray this like I'm promoting works salvation.

Shame on you.

How can anyone promote that...not a student of scripture.

 

[kyredneck]

Hold on Kyred,
My post should not be offensive to anyone holding the biblical relationship between saving faith, and works of faith.Why are you so touchy on this question?

Pavlov's dog, I guess. My apologies to you also Icon.

 

[Iconoclast]

Pavlov's dog, I guess. My apologies to you also Icon.

No Problem Kyred,
We have enough good posts in the bank to not fully agree on things.
We are both stubborn
I think I misread your posts some times
1pet4:8
I would rather you post your verses and stick to them,then just tweet ideas with no biblical support.
You know I do not have thin skin and by all means continue to offer biblical correction if you see me drift at all

 

[George Antonios]

Every heavenly born child of God is by nature a doer of the law:

Jas_2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

You think "every heavenly born child of God is by nature a doer" of every single point of the law?

I wish.

 

[kyredneck]

Jas_2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

You think "every heavenly born child of God is by nature a doer" of every single point of the law?

I wish.

Your wish come true:

8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

 

[George Antonios]

Your wish come true:

8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

How is that a reply? That simply kicked the can down the road. You think there are born again Christians that love God and their neighbour perfectly all the time without ever transgressing a single point of the law?