Does 2 Cor 5:19 Teach...?

[Brother Bob]

The way I understand is that we sinned against God and Jesus died for our sins and made an atonement or ransomed every man to God. Now for God to apply that blood to cover your sins, you must believe.
Except you believe, you do not receive the benefit of the blood.

 

[TCGreek]

The way I understand is that we sinned against God and Jesus died for our sins and made an atonement or ransomed every man to God. Now for God to apply that blood to cover your sins, you must believe.

Then the death of Christ was complete in one sense and not complete in another, because you are only covered when you believe. So in a sense, his atonement was only a potential atonement?

 

[Brother Bob]

The atonement was made to the Father completely, it is up to Him whether He applys it to your soul and if you do not believe, then your sins will not be covered. As I see it.

 

[TCGreek]

The atonement was made to the Father completely, it is up to Him whether He applys it to your soul and if you do not believe, then your sins will not be covered. As I see it.

1. If this post is what you believe, then the following post, #13, that you posted earlier must go.

2. They both cannot be correct since they contradict each other.

3. One says that His atonement was complete and the other says that His atonement was not complete.

4. But you still haven't solved the problem you created. You have made the atonement of Christ a potential one and now only to be applied by the Father only if we believe.

5. So Christ atonement was only potential then?

The atonement was made to the Father. Jesus didn't just give some of His blood, He gave it all to the Father as an atonement for all, but in order for it to be complete, we must believe. Or, in order to have the blood applied to your soul, you must believe.

The Father will not apply that blood, except we believe.
__________________

 

[Brother Bob]

Those are your words not mine. The scripture says it is complete to the Father. You have to believe and repent and be born again, before you receive that blood, or else what about new converts, day after day, of which God adds to the church daily such as should be saved. I do not think the two posts contradict each other at all.

[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
[6] Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Jesus is our advocate and God does the forgiving. Its kinda simple to me.


The blood was not potentially made but our receiving it is not sure or it would be universal.

Tell me TC; where does the blood come from for a new convert?

 

[TCGreek]

Those are your words not mine. The scripture says it is complete to the Father. You have to believe and repent and be born again, before you receive that blood, or else what about new converts, day after day, of which God adds to the church daily such as should be saved. I do not think the two posts contradict each other at all.

[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
[6] Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Jesus is our advocate and God does the forgiving. Its kinda simple to me.


The blood was not potentially made but our receiving it is not sure or it would be universal.

This is your post #13:

The atonement was made to the Father. Jesus didn't just give some of His blood, He gave it all to the Father as an atonement for all, but in order for it to be complete, we must believe. Or, in order to have the blood applied to your soul, you must believe.

The Father will not apply that blood, except we believe.

 

[Amy.G]

Christ's atonement was complete. "It is finished". Yet, we must believe to be saved.
It seems there are two parts. Atonement and faith.

Act 16:30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

 

[charles_creech78]

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

 

[TCGreek]

Those are your words not mine. The scripture says it is complete to the Father. You have to believe and repent and be born again, before you receive that blood, or else what about new converts, day after day, of which God adds to the church daily such as should be saved. I do not think the two posts contradict each other at all.

[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
[6] Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Jesus is our advocate and God does the forgiving. Its kinda simple to me.


The blood was not potentially made but our receiving it is not sure or it would be universal.

Tell me TC; where does the blood come from for a new convert?

Christ has already atoned for everyone who will believe in Him, including all those who are converted everyday, all over the globe.

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Those are your words not mine. The scripture says it is complete to the Father. You have to believe and repent and be born again, before you receive that blood, or else what about new converts, day after day, of which God adds to the church daily such as should be saved. I do not think the two posts contradict each other at all.

[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
[6] Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Jesus is our advocate and God does the forgiving. Its kinda simple to me.


The blood was not potentially made but our receiving it is not sure or it would be universal.

This is your post #13: Quote:
The atonement was made to the Father. Jesus didn't just give some of His blood, He gave it all to the Father as an atonement for all, but in order for it to be complete, we must believe. Or, in order to have the blood applied to your soul, you must believe.

The Father will not apply that blood, except we believe.

I see no difference between the two.

 

[TCGreek]

I see no difference between the two.

How can you say that there is no difference, when one quote says that "in order for it be complete," meaning it wasn't complete and then another quote says it was complete?

 

[Brother Bob]

I had to go out tonight to preach a nite service for a funeral, haven't been back long.

There is a difference of being complete with God as far as the atonement, and being complete with you. Also, complete with each new convert as long as time lasts. There is enough blood there to save the whole world, if they would only believe, repent and be born again.
If all the blood had already passed through the Father, there would be none left for all those who will be saved in the future.

 

[Amy.G]

Why must we believe?

 

[TCGreek]

Why must we believe?

We must believe on Jesus to be saved (Acts 16:31).

 

[Amy.G]

We must believe on Jesus to be saved (Acts 16:31).

Yes, I know. But we were talking about the atonement being complete. I guess I am confused.

 

[Brother Bob]

Why must we believe?

Because God let His Son die for the sins of the whole world, but you must believe that Jesus is the Christ or God just not going to take the blood from His Son and wash your sins white as snow. God fixed it that way. Jesus did His part, now we must do ours. Believe!!! Jesus shed ALL of His blood and gave it to the Father as an atonement for the sins of all men, but its up to God to forgive and use the blood to cleanse you, if you believe.

 

[TCGreek]

Because God let His Son die for the sins of the whole world, but you must believe that Jesus is the Christ or God just not going to take the blood from His Son and wash your sins white as snow. God fixed it that way. Jesus did His part, now we must do ours. Believe!!!

And I'm in complete agreement.

 

[Amy.G]

Because God let His Son die for the sins of the whole world, but you must believe that Jesus is the Christ or God just not going to take the blood from His Son and wash your sins white as snow. God fixed it that way. Jesus did His part, now we must do ours. Believe!!! Jesus shed ALL of His blood and gave it to the Father as an atonement for the sins of all men, but its up to God to forgive and use the blood to cleanse you, if you believe.

I think I got confused on the direction of the conversation. We were talking about the atonement being complete or not complete until we believed.

Maybe I should go back and re-read.

 

[Brother Bob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Because God let His Son die for the sins of the whole world, but you must believe that Jesus is the Christ or God just not going to take the blood from His Son and wash your sins white as snow. God fixed it that way. Jesus did His part, now we must do ours. Believe!!!


And I'm in complete agreement.

Thanks, I was having trouble finding just the right words to convey my thoughts. I think its that IVY education you have........

 

[TCGreek]

Thanks, I was having trouble finding just the right words to convey my thoughts. I think its that IVY education you have........

1. Well, we all do at times, despite our education. :thumbs:

2. But what does it mean that God did not count their trespasses against them? (2 Cor 5:19).