Does Acts 2:38 REALLy teach water baptism requiredto be saved?

[kyredneck]

Passage 1:
I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me… he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit… Mt 3:11

Passage 2:
And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

Passage 3:
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper country came to Ephesus, and found certain disciples:
2 and he said unto them, Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye believed? And they said unto him, Nay, we did not so much as hear whether the Holy Spirit was given.
3 And he said, Into what then were ye baptized? And they said, Into John`s baptism.
4 And Paul said, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on him that should come after him, that is, on Jesus.
5 And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. Acts 19

Questions for JoJ (or anyone). No tongue in cheek here, these are sincere questions.

How many baptisms in the above passages?

There’s definitely water baptism by John.

Is there then another water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ?

And then after that is yet another baptism of the Spirit?

Did all those previously water baptized by John have to be re-water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in order to be baptized of the Spirit?

What did ‘laying on of the hands’ have to do with baptism of the Spirit?

 

[kyredneck]

…..I stated in an earlier post, “When Peter says, "Save yourselves", he is not saying "Send yourselves to heaven". He is saying, 'Escape the wrath to come'.” There’s nothing like applying a healthy dose of the ‘preterist modifier’ (gasp, I said that word, it’s bound to cause some convulsions) to shed light on “Save yourselves from this crooked generation” which is synonymous with:

…Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues: for her sins have reached even unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Rev 18:4,5

Interpretation of Scripture requires that one discern the difference between:

{1}prophecy regarding the Return of Jesus Christ followed by the General Resurrection and Judgment and

{2}prophecy related to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD!

Heeding the included instructions is always helpful. "Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand."

70AD wasn't far off but the rest has yet to happen!

Heeding the included instructions is always helpful; “…the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified”. Along with many other similarities found within these types that we’re pointed to, all four of these have in common an escape or an exodus:

Babylon:
Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and save every man his life; be not cut off in her iniquity: for it is the time of Jehovah`s vengeance; he will render unto her a recompense. ……..My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and save yourselves every man from the fierce anger of Jehovah. Jer 51:6,45
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues: for her sins have reached even unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Rev 18:4-5

Sodom:
And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou consume the righteous with the wicked?. .…That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked, that so the righteous should be as the wicked; that be far from thee: shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? Gen 18:23,25
And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters that are here, lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. But he lingered; and the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters, Jehovah being merciful unto him; and they brought him forth, and set him without the city. And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the Plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed. Gen 19: 12-17

Egypt:
24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die; but God will surely visit you, and bring you up out of this land unto the land which he sware to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. Gen 50
And Jehovah said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people that are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; and I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey;……… Ex 3:7-8
9 And thou sawest the affliction of our fathers in Egypt, and heardest their cry by the Red Sea,
10 and showedst signs and wonders upon Pharaoh, and on all his servants, and on all the people of his land; for thou knewest that they dealt proudly against them, and didst get thee a name, as it is this day.
11 And thou didst divide the sea before them, so that they went through the midst of the sea on the dry land; and their pursuers thou didst cast into the depths, as a stone into the mighty waters. Neh 9

Jerusalem:
But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand. Then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains; and let them that are in the midst of her depart out; and let not them that are in the country enter therein. For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people....This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21:20-23, 32
…….. Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2:40

 

[Yeshua1]

Heeding the included instructions is always helpful; “…the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified”. Along with many other similarities found within these types that we’re pointed to, all four of these have in common an escape or an exodus:

Babylon:
Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and save every man his life; be not cut off in her iniquity: for it is the time of Jehovah`s vengeance; he will render unto her a recompense. ……..My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and save yourselves every man from the fierce anger of Jehovah. Jer 51:6,45
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues: for her sins have reached even unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Rev 18:4-5

Sodom:
And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou consume the righteous with the wicked?. .…That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked, that so the righteous should be as the wicked; that be far from thee: shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? Gen 18:23,25
And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters that are here, lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. But he lingered; and the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters, Jehovah being merciful unto him; and they brought him forth, and set him without the city. And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the Plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed. Gen 19: 12-17

Egypt:
24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die; but God will surely visit you, and bring you up out of this land unto the land which he sware to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. Gen 50
And Jehovah said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people that are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; and I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey;……… Ex 3:7-8
9 And thou sawest the affliction of our fathers in Egypt, and heardest their cry by the Red Sea,
10 and showedst signs and wonders upon Pharaoh, and on all his servants, and on all the people of his land; for thou knewest that they dealt proudly against them, and didst get thee a name, as it is this day.
11 And thou didst divide the sea before them, so that they went through the midst of the sea on the dry land; and their pursuers thou didst cast into the depths, as a stone into the mighty waters. Neh 9

Jerusalem:
But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand. Then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains; and let them that are in the midst of her depart out; and let not them that are in the country enter therein. For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people....This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21:20-23, 32
…….. Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2:40

the great whore in revelation is still to come, which will be Apsotate christianity after the rapture of the church!

 

[kyredneck]

No, she existed at the time of the writing, the whore is the same unfaithful wife of Jehovah that's continually presented throughout the OT, even from her very earliest beginnings:

16 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and play the harlot after the strange gods of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall come upon them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?
19 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach thou it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are come upon them, that this song shall testify before them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they frame this day, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
22 So Moses wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.
29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do that which is evil in the sight of Jehovah, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. Dt 31

The above is quoted from the Song of Moses [Dt 31:16-Dt 32] which had only one purpose, and that was to bear witness before God against Israel when evil would befall them in the latter days for their harlotry! The Song of Moses is being sang in Rev 15:3!

The two women in Rev 12 and Rev 17 are the same two women of Gal 4:22-31

 

[John of Japan]

Passage 1:
I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me… he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit… Mt 3:11

Passage 2:
And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

Passage 3:
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper country came to Ephesus, and found certain disciples:
2 and he said unto them, Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye believed? And they said unto him, Nay, we did not so much as hear whether the Holy Spirit was given.
3 And he said, Into what then were ye baptized? And they said, Into John`s baptism.
4 And Paul said, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on him that should come after him, that is, on Jesus.
5 And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. Acts 19

Questions for JoJ (or anyone). No tongue in cheek here, these are sincere questions.

I have to run to the church for Bible institute work shortly, but I'll give some quick answers here.

How many baptisms in the above passages?

There’s definitely water baptism by John.

Is there then another water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ?

Yes, there are two physical baptisms.

And then after that is yet another baptism of the Spirit?

The passage does not use that term, which is one of several different metaphors used for the same thing. We are not literally immersed into the Spirit of God. Since Luke doesn't use the term here, I would hesitate to use it since it would change the nuance of the passage, which uses the metaphor "came upon them" instead.

Did all those previously water baptized by John have to be re-water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in order to be baptized of the Spirit?

No, I don't think so. I think they had to be rebaptized, but not to receive the Holy Spirit. I believe Peter was using the "keys of the kingdom" here to initiate another group into the church age after the Jews and the Gentiles. It was a one time event.

What did ‘laying on of the hands’ have to do with baptism of the Spirit?

In the Bible the laying on of hands can be for blessing or for anointing. I would say it was for both in this case.

 

[kyredneck]

Thank you for your comments JoJ.

Does Acts 2:38 REALLy teach water baptism requiredto be saved?

And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

The Spirit through Peter is addressing ‘Ye men of Israel’, and has charged them with the crucifixion and slaying of Jesus of Nazareth. A few weeks earlier ‘the people’ had made this solemn vow:

And all the people answered and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. Mt 27:25

A few hours before that at the temple Christ had declared to their leaders:

Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers….that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth…All these things shall come upon this generation. Mt 23:33,35,36

It was known long beforehand, foretold as in the song of Moses cited above, that judgment was coming upon them. Three years earlier John the Baptist had rebuked those leaders coming to his baptism:

But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said unto them, Ye offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Mt 3:7

And here we have the first hint of baptism (for the Jew) as an act of profession for the wheat to separate from the chaff, and ‘have no fellowship with her sins and receive not of her plagues’.

“Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins”. I suggest that this is addressed only to the Jews of ‘that generation’. "Save yourselves from this crooked generation."

 

[Yeshua1]

has God rejected His people the jews? Did God cancel out all of His promises to the nation of isreal?

'God forbid!"

the Woman riding the beast is Apostate Chrsitianity of end times, NOT isreal!

 

[kyredneck]

has God rejected His people the jews?

God did not cast off his people which he foreknew. Ro 11:2

But that doesn't include these:

...the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews, and they art not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Rev 2:9
...the synagogue of Satan, of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but do lie... Rev 3:9

Did God cancel out all of His promises to the nation of isreal?

No, He fulfilled them:

43 So Jehovah gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And Jehovah gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; Jehovah delivered all their enemies into their hand.
45 There failed not aught of any good thing which Jehovah had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. Josh 21

And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which Jehovah your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, not one thing hath failed thereof. Josh 23:14

Blessed be Jehovah, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by Moses his servant. 1 Ki 8:56

For how many soever be the promises of God, in him is the yea: wherefore also through him is the Amen, unto the glory of God through us. 2 Cor 1:20

'God forbid!"

the Woman riding the beast is Apostate Chrsitianity of end times, NOT isreal!

You don't even stop to think about the significance of both women (of Rev 12 & Rev 17) being distinctly Jewish, do you? You just spout off.

How many 'Israels' do you see here?:

.....For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel Rom 9:6

How many 'Jews' do you see here?:

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly...but he is a Jew who is one inwardly...Ro 2:28,29

How many 'circumcisions' do you see here?:

...neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh...circumcision is that of the heart....Ro 2:28.29

How many 'children' do you see here?:

...not the children of the flesh....the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed.. Ro 9:8

 

[Yeshua1]

God did not cast off his people which he foreknew. Ro 11:2

But that doesn't include these:

...the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews, and they art not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Rev 2:9
...the synagogue of Satan, of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but do lie... Rev 3:9



No, He fulfilled them:

43 So Jehovah gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And Jehovah gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; Jehovah delivered all their enemies into their hand.
45 There failed not aught of any good thing which Jehovah had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. Josh 21

And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which Jehovah your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, not one thing hath failed thereof. Josh 23:14

Blessed be Jehovah, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by Moses his servant. 1 Ki 8:56

For how many soever be the promises of God, in him is the yea: wherefore also through him is the Amen, unto the glory of God through us. 2 Cor 1:20



You don't even stop to think about the significance of both women (of Rev 12 & Rev 17) being distinctly Jewish, do you? You just spout off.

How many 'Israels' do you see here?:

.....For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel Rom 9:6

How many 'Jews' do you see here?:

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly...but he is a Jew who is one inwardly...Ro 2:28,29

How many 'circumcisions' do you see here?:

...neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh...circumcision is that of the heart....Ro 2:28.29

How many 'children' do you see here?:

...not the children of the flesh....the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed.. Ro 9:8

I see the jews as a nation rekected jesus, God used that to bring gentiles to salvation, and that when jesus comes back to reign on earth, thenation of isreal shall be reborn and saved on that day, in fulfillment Ezekiel prophecy of valley of bones!

 

[kyredneck]

Good for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm happy for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[salzer mtn]

Acts 2:38 reminds me of the little old lady that would say the words Act's 2:38 over and over every time she was under some kind of stress. One night a burglar started to attack the little old lady in her home and she cried out Act's 2:38, Acts 2:38. The burglar ran out of the house and down the street where he was apprehended by a policeman. The policeman ask the burglar what was his great rush, "why, the burglar replied, " a little old lady attacked me with a ax and two thirty eight pistols".

 

[kyredneck]

...now that was chee-zee....

 

[Yeshua1]

Good for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm happy for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So when did you cease being a baptist then, as far as i know, NO baptist group/church promotes that water baptism is required to have God save us!