Does believing play a part in Salvation ?

[robustheologian]

You're more interested in winning this argument than you are in the truth.

That's how it appears to me. Gal. 5:19-21 talks about how those who are agitators (creating strife) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I think we all are getting frustrated because we are having conversations about the Kingdom with someone (SBM) who apparently (looking at the fruit) may not be apart of the kingdom...someone who is exalting Calvinism over Christ-likeness.

 

[Don]

don




You are more interested in slandering and misrepresenting your neighbor than the Truth ! You outright lied and said:



He did not ignore it, but acknowledged it, and then proceded to Highlight an most neglected part of the word, the indicative mood, and the word to be !

The problem is, what he highlighted condemns your false views and exposes that you believe in Salvation by works, by keep the Law , by doing a condition ! Deal with it !

I'm trying to think of a way to say this that even a third-grader could understand; but I can't think of any simpler way to put it than I already have.

Your author started with a premise that non-calvinists misunderstand Mark 16:16 because they misunderstand "to be" vice "to get." Then he identified the passage as a future passive indicative. Then he mentions "has been or will be saved," specifying that belief is necessary because of salvation--which is NOT what Mark 16:16 says.

Then your author moves on to his discussion of imperative vice indicative; and winds up with discussion of other verses where he focuses on the indicative tense--but never again refers to the future aspect.

The word "future" is used once in the article. The future tense is basically ignored in the rest of the article in favor of presenting the indicative, in order to justify the discussion's premise of "to be" vice "to get."

The fact if the matter is, as I pointed in my first post refuting this author, that in order to make the point of "to be" vice "to get," the author has to ignore context and the future tense. The preceeding verse is the imperative to preach the Word; verse 16 is the indicative, the statement of fact, of the result of that imperative. Word by word is the further realization that he who believes shall be saved (future event, statement of fact). As I posted in my first refutation, this is as simple as saying "he who sticks his hand in the lion's mouth, shall be bit."

I can present my case no clearer. If you still refuse to see the truth of what I've written, then you should--nay, you MUST, you are obligated!--to report my posting to the moderators.

 

[Don]

That's how it appears to me. Gal. 5:19-21 talks about how those who are agitators (creating strife) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I think we all are getting frustrated because we are having conversations about the Kingdom with someone (SBM) who apparently (looking at the fruit) may not be apart of the kingdom...someone who is exalting Calvinism over Christ-likeness.

You're right. I've posted my last on this.

 

[JamesL]

That's how it appears to me. Gal. 5:19-21 talks about how those who are agitators (creating strife) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I think we all are getting frustrated because we are having conversations about the Kingdom with someone (SBM) who apparently (looking at the fruit) may not be apart of the kingdom...someone who is exalting Calvinism over Christ-likeness.

I've said before....

At a minimum, he doubts his eternal security because Calvinism has filled him with introspection - looking at his works for proof that he's saved.

When he couldn't find enough evidence we there, he sought solace in the notion that God chose him from eternity. Now if he can only scream it loud enough, often enough, he'll convince himself it's actually true.

I've asked him - you tryna convince me. Or yourself?

And I only know it because I experienced firsthand what I see there

 

[robustheologian]

I've said before....

At a minimum, he doubts his eternal security because Calvinism has filled him with introspection - looking at his works for proof that he's saved.

When he couldn't find enough evidence we there, he sought solace in the notion that God chose him from eternity. Now if he can only scream it loud enough, often enough, he'll convince himself it's actually true.

I've asked him - you tryna convince me. Or yourself?

And I only know it because I experienced firsthand what I see there

Well said. If one is truly chosen from eternity, there will always be evidence.

John 15:16a - You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide...

2 Peter 1:10 - Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities (virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and godliness with brotherly affection) you will never fall.

 

[savedbymercy]

Does believing play a part in Salvation ? 3

Yes Believing plays a Huge part in Salvation in that we believe because we are saved, there is no believing unless we are saved first, for we cannot believe in a lost state ! The Gospel is hid to them that are in a lost state so that they cannot believe being blinded by the devil, or the god/prince of this world 2 Cor 4:3-4 ! Hence we believe because of being saved by and through Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

They believed because of being saved by Grace. The word through here is the preposition dia, which means :

on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, or because of Grace ! Not because of freewill as the proud boaster would have us believe, but again because of Grace, the Grace of the Spirit Zech 12:10.

Grace here is said to be the author and efficient cause of their believing, because of Grace which is the Gift of God !

The word grace in Acts 18:27 is charis and means:

A.of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues

Its the Gift by Grace Rom 5:15

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

This Grace abounds victoriously towards us through the Lord Jesus Christ, and is similar to the fact that with the giving of His Son for us, with Him He gave us all things that produces and pertains to Life and godliness Rom 8:32 ; 2 Pet 1:3 ! And Godliness is to Acknowledge the Truth Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

And thats what results us believing, because of Grace through Jesus Christ Jn 1:16-17 !

 

[PreachTony]

Yes Believing plays a Huge part in Salvation in that we believe because we are saved, there is no believing unless we are saved first, for we cannot believe in a lost state ! The Gospel is hid to them that are in a lost state so that they cannot believe being blinded by the devil, or the god/prince of this world 2 Cor 4:3-4 ! Hence we believe because of being saved by and through Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

They believed because of being saved by Grace. The word through here is the preposition dia, which means :

on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, or because of Grace ! Not because of freewill as the proud boaster would have us believe, but again because of Grace, the Grace of the Spirit Zech 12:10.

Grace here is said to be the author and efficient cause of their believing, because of Grace which is the Gift of God !

The word grace in Acts 18:27 is charis and means:



Its the Gift by Grace Rom 5:15

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

This Grace abounds victoriously towards us through the Lord Jesus Christ, and is similar to the fact that with the giving of His Son for us, with Him He gave us all things that produces and pertains to Life and godliness Rom 8:32 ; 2 Pet 1:3 ! And Godliness is to Acknowledge the Truth Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

And thats what results us believing, because of Grace through Jesus Christ Jn 1:16-17 !

Still pushing your version of Hyper-warp-speed-ludicrous-Calvinism, eh?

 

[OldRegular]

And Justification of life is needed before regeneration ! Rom 5:18 !

Your statement is not supported by the Scripture you reference:

Romans 5:18, 19
18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

You cannot ignore Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Are you saying that Faith precedes Regeneration?

 

[savedbymercy]

Your statement is not supported by the Scripture you reference:

Romans 5:18, 19
18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

You cannot ignore Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Are you saying that Faith precedes Regeneration?

Rom 5:18 states plainly that Justification of Life came upon all men, How ? Simply by the Righteousness of one, thats Jesus, they did not do anything.

Neither did they do anything when condemnation came upon them, it came upon them BY THE OFFENCE OF ONE ! And so likewise, JUSTIFICATION LIFE CAME UPON THEM BY THE RIGHTEOUNESS OF ONE !

And because they are made Righteous, they are given Life !

Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

The resurrection proved that those Christ died for were by it Justified before God.

It has nothing to do with their Faith, they are Justified before God while unbelievers, by Christ's Blood !

Thats why they must be given Life, Righteousness demands Life ! Prov 12:28

In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof

 

[OldRegular]

Rom 5:18 states plainly that Justification of Life came upon all men, How ? Simply by the Righteousness of one, thats Jesus, they did not do anything.

Neither did they do anything when condemnation came upon them, it came upon them BY THE OFFENCE OF ONE ! And so likewise, JUSTIFICATION LIFE CAME UPON THEM BY THE RIGHTEOUNESS OF ONE !

And because they are made Righteous, they are given Life !


Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

The resurrection proved that those Christ died for were by it Justified before God.

It has nothing to do with their Faith, they are Justified before God while unbelievers, by Christ's Blood !

Thats why they must be given Life, Righteousness demands Life ! Prov 12:28

In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof

You appear to be saying that ALL mankind are born justified! That is nonsense and worse it is not according to Scripture!

 

[savedbymercy]

You appear to be saying that ALL mankind are born justified! That is nonsense and worse it is not according to Scripture!

No, Only God's Elect, Christ did not die for everyone, thats why everyone is not Justified utno Life Rom 5:18 ! DUH !

 

[Don]

"Duh"? Really?

Do you really consider yourself that intellectually superior to everyone else, that you think your disrespect is warranted?

 

[convicted1]

You appear to be saying that ALL mankind are born justified! That is nonsense and worse it is not according to Scripture!

He believes in eternal justification...

 

[PreachTony]

The resurrection proved that those Christ died for were by it Justified before God.

It has nothing to do with their Faith, they are Justified before God while unbelievers, by Christ's Blood !

I thought your theology stated that people were born saved or born damned. But now you have people being Justified while not believing in God. Your theology confuses me.

Thats why they must be given Life, Righteousness demands Life ! Prov 12:28

In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof

So now, using your own interpretation of scripture, you are dictating what God MUST do. Now you say God MUST give them life.

 

[convicted1]

No, Only God's Elect, Christ did not die for everyone, thats why everyone is not Justified utno Life Rom 5:18 ! DUH !

You add zero, zilch, zip, to any discussion whatsoever....

 

[savedbymercy]

You add zero, zilch, zip, to any discussion whatsoever....

Yall evade my points. Do you want to review with me the points I made in the OP ? Please review those points I made with me, that way we can discuss them further !

 

[convicted1]

Yall evade my points. Do you want to review with me the points I made in the OP ? Please review those points I made with me, that way we can discuss them further !

We evade your points?? The only point you have is on the crown of your head...

 

[savedbymercy]

We evade your points?? The only point you have is on the crown of your head...

Yeah, surely you do, because you scared of them, let me know when you ready the points made in the OP !

 

[PreachTony]

Yeah, surely you do, because you scared of them, let me know when you ready the points made in the OP !

No one has really evaded your points, SBM. We answer you. It's just not the answer you want us to give, so you accuse us of rabbit trails and evasion. More often than not, instead of engaging in actual debate and discussion, you come off sounding like a petulant child who only wants the discussion to go in one direction.

 

[convicted1]

No one has really evaded your points, SBM. We answer you. It's just not the answer you want us to give, so you accuse us of rabbit trails and evasion. More often than not, instead of engaging in actual debate and discussion, you come off sounding like a petulant child who only wants the discussion to go in one direction.

Evasion!! Rabbit trails!! Oh wait...