Does Calvinism require a higher spiritual intellect, spirituality, and...

[R. Lawson]

...theology?

Luke2427 said in this post:

Many people do not get Calvinism because it is true that it requires a certain level of intellectual, spiritual and theological maturity.

The quote is somewhat rediculous. It's essence is "If you don't believe this or that I'm far more intellectual, spiritual, and theologically mature. An Arminian could say the same:

Many people do not get Arminianism because it is true that it requires a certain level of intellectual, spiritual and theological maturity.

I'm wondering if the Calvinists here believe Luke's quote.

The Gnostics believed they had special knowledge and maturity, too.

 

[webdog]

To be honest, as an analytical type while leaning towards this doctrine years ago, the intellectual "stimulation" is there for sure, not to mention the who's who in the reformed circles. I thought people such as Spurgeon, Piper, MacArthur, Pink, et al couldn't possibly be wrong in their doctrine. Fortunately, I continued to question not only them but myself and my motives. Too many inconsistencies and proof texting to gloss over in order to accept this doctrine, IMO.

 

[The Archangel]

...theology?

Luke2427 said in this post:

The quote is somewhat rediculous. It's essence is "If you don't believe this or that I'm far more intellectual, spiritual, and theologically mature. An Arminian could say the same:

I'm wondering if the Calvinists here believe Luke's quote.

The Gnostics believed they had special knowledge and maturity, too.

I think I understand what Luke is trying to say, but I don't agree with how he said it.

If I may try to "translate..." Many Calvinists see the garden-variety, default, Arminianism in many Baptist churches today as a superficial theology. The reason, primarily, is that many of today's Calvinists grew up in that superficial environment, never hearing about "Calvinism" or "Arminianism" for many years, if ever.

There are many Arminians who react (sometimes in a very ugly manner) against Calvinism--like a person's body trying to fight off infection. Why? Because they've never considered the claims and they have no idea why they believe what they believe.

On average, many of the garden-variety Arminians have been indoctrinated into their positions. On the other hand, many Calvinists have been taught and, subsequently, wrestled--some mightily--with their positions.

While this is a general statement, it does not apply to most non-Calvinists here who have, to some degree, studied their positions and can articulate why they believe what they believe.

So, in the end, I think Luke was talking about the garden-variety of Arminianism that has been caught through indoctrination being the common theology of those who have not or do not care to investigate things for themselves.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

[matt wade]

Yes, of course it does. I have learned from my dear brother Luke that in order to grasp the concepts of Calvinism one must be of high intellectual capacity. Those that do not grasp it and cling to these pitiful "whosoever" arguments are simply country bumpkins that have no mental ability. God has blessed us Calvinists with supreme abilities for His glory.

 

[R. Lawson]

Yes, of course it does. I have learned from my dear brother Luke that in order to grasp the concepts of Calvinism one must be of high intellectual capacity. Those that do not grasp it and cling to these pitiful "whosoever" arguments are simply country bumpkins that have no mental ability. God has blessed us Calvinists with supreme abilities for His glory.

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Mr. Matt wade, tellin' it how it is.:type:

 

[glfredrick]

...theology?

Luke2427 said in this post:

The quote is somewhat rediculous. It's essence is "If you don't believe this or that I'm far more intellectual, spiritual, and theologically mature. An Arminian could say the same:

I'm wondering if the Calvinists here believe Luke's quote.

The Gnostics believed they had special knowledge and maturity, too.

Just wondering why you are trying to handle this in such an ill-suited manner for a Christian.

We can discuss the issues, but to create a post specifically to disparage a brother is out of hand.

After that, I think that Archangel nailed it...

As a pastor for over 25 years, I've run into the sort of person he mentions time and again. And, like he said, that is not to say that there are no Arminian scholars -- quite the opposite -- the position came into being BECAUSE of scholarship, and the use of human logic. But, what is commonly tossed about on the board and in many a church is not "scholarly" Arminianism of any sort. It is gut-reaction emotionalism that has been drummed into people by preachers and teachers who don't know better. Been there, seen it done, have the scars to prove it.

 

[annsni]

Hey, I'm pretty dumb and I believe in the doctrine of grace. I read it in my Bible and believed it. I don't get it all but I believe it.

 

[R. Lawson]

Just wondering why you are trying to handle this in such an ill-suited manner for a Christian.

We can discuss the issues, but to create a post specifically to disparage a brother is out of hand.

After that, I think that Archangel nailed it...

As a pastor for over 25 years, I've run into the sort of person he mentions time and again. And, like he said, that is not to say that there are no Arminian scholars -- quite the opposite -- the position came into being BECAUSE of scholarship, and the use of human logic. But, what is commonly tossed about on the board and in many a church is not "scholarly" Arminianism of any sort. It is gut-reaction emotionalism that has been drummed into people by preachers and teachers who don't know better. Been there, seen it done, have the scars to prove it.

Bro, I'm not disparaging Luke. My main question -- if you can see the bold in my text -- was if all Calvinists hold that position. All I did was use Luke's view to use as an example. There's no disparaging there.

I'm an ex-Calvinist. Does that mean I at one time possessed a superior level of spiritual maturity and theology?

 

[R. Lawson]

Hey, I'm pretty dumb and I believe in the doctrine of grace. I read it in my Bible and believed it. I don't get it all but I believe it.

I'm a firm believer in the doctrine of grace.

 

[GBC Pastor]

Just wondering why you are trying to handle this in such an ill-suited manner for a Christian.

We can discuss the issues, but to create a post specifically to disparage a brother is out of hand.

Actually I fail to see how questioning the expressed beliefs of someone in a debate forum is in anyway disparaging.

 

[Robert Snow]

I am also a firm believe in the biblical doctrines of grace. That is why I reject the doctrines of Calvinism. :tonofbricks:

 

[MB]

Does Calvinism require a higher spiritual intellect, spirituality, and Maturity? Probably, but Christ requires a humbled heart.
MB

 

[Tom Butler]

I surely hope that embracing Calvinism (or DoG) doesn't require a superior intellect, or I'd be outa luck.

But I do think spiritual illumination is an important.

Now, you non-Cals, don't get bent out of shape. I'm not suggesting that you don't have spiritual illumination. The fact that you're saved tells me that the Holy Spirit has opened your eyes.

We're talking about a specific issue about which we see things differently. Neither side should claim spiritual superiority for their views.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I am also a firm believe in the biblical doctrines of grace. That is why I reject the doctrines of Calvinism. :tonofbricks:

What does that mean exactly?

 

[preacher4truth]

...Mr. Matt wade, tellin' it how it is...

From this we get the true spirit and intent of the OP. It looks like luke2427 has the maturity part of it on the right track.

You don't have to be intellectual to see the DoG's. You just have to read the Word.

 

[Amy.G]

I'm an ex-Calvinist. Does that mean I at one time possessed a superior level of spiritual maturity and theology?

Yes. And now you're as dumb as a rock. Buy hey, so am I. I am also VERY immature.

 

[quantumfaith]

Yes. And now you're as dumb as a rock. Buy hey, so am I. I am also VERY immature.

Amy, obviously, you must not read your scriptures.

 

[Winman]

Calvinism is a highly intellectual system, but that does not make it correct.

It is like taking a jigsaw puzzle of a cow and carefully rearranging the pieces to get a horse. It takes great skill and intellect to do this, but it does not represent the truth.

The casual observer will think it a beautiful picture of a horse, but the careful observer will notice this horse has horns.

 

[R. Lawson]

From this we get the true spirit and intent of the OP. It looks like luke2427 has the maturity part of it on the right track.

You don't have to be intellectual to see the DoG's. You just have to read the Word.

Preacher,

What was said was in jest. So my original post was in jest? No, but the comment to Matt was.:wavey:

 

[preachinjesus]

Does Calvinism require a higher spiritual intellect, spirituality, and Maturity? Probably, but Christ requires a humbled heart.
MB

ZIIIINNNNNGGGG!!!

I love it, totally using that in the future.

To say Reformed theology requires any of these things is silly. I have a PhD (from a rather reputable school) and am not reformed. I have friends who received their PhD from that and other schools who are reformed.

Its not about smarts. Its not about spirituality.

To truly follow Christ we must submit ourselves to His ways and His worship. Christ does require humility because humility is the exact opposite of the root of sin...pride.

My particular theological system is just as intellectually robust as Reformed theology. (For instance I have yet to hear a good response to my position on the counterfactuals of freedom as pertains to divine middle knowledge concerning theodicy.)

Perhaps we should ask a more prescient question: does your theology lead to you worship God in spirit and in truth? Or does it lead to your own hubris?

The best theology leads to worship.