J.D. said:
Dr. Ketchum,
(underlines added by me)
You said: “From the context of these verses, it is obvious that God is NOT referring to individuals (Jacob and Esau), but to the nations that descended from them.”
Then you said: “Jacob is the positive example of God’s special intervention in the life of one man to insure His purpose.”
“One man” refers to an individual, does it not?
Also, let’s apply your template to another verse in the passage and see if it works:
v22 “What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the [nations] of wrath fitted to destruction:
v23 “And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the [nations] of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,”
Which nations are fitted to destruction, and which nations are fitted to glory? Who are the nations of mercy?
v24 “Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?”
Which nation is the “us” nation, which was called? I hope I am a citizen of that nation.
Or does he call individuals? I think so. “Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified… Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.”
Again, you said: “Secondly, it is obvious from Malachi chapter one (that Paul is quoting in Romans chapter nine) that salvation is not the issue in question.”
And then you said: “The issue is what constitutes true Israel as opposed to national Israel. True Israel is not just a matter of genealogical connection to Abraham, but a spiritual connection. The connecting link is not that they had the same blood lines (consanguineous), but that they had the same faith in the “promise” of God”.
Isn’t the “spiritual connection, i.e. “faith in the promise of God”, all about salvation?
Besides that, let’s look further to see if there’s anything in Romans 9 that might indicate that Paul is speaking about salvation:
v3 “For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren”
His desire for his brethren is their salvation.
v8a “They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:”
i.e., they are not saved.
v8b “but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
i.e. they are saved.
v9 “For this is the word of promise”
i.e. the decree to save the children of promise.
v11 “(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth”
– what is “not of works”? Salvation.
v15 “I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy”
– how are we saved? “but according to his mercy he saved us,” (Titus 3:5)
I could go on, but one more:
v27 “a remnant shall be saved:”
Looks to me like Romans 9 is all about salvation.
