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Does "enlightened" mean saved?
- Thread starter Calminian
- Start date
Yes, we agree, you must be "enlightened" before you can believe in the light. So everyone saved was enlightened, but not everyone enlightened was saved.
Sort of like everyone saved was drawn, but not everyone drawn was saved.
I think this has to be the case with enlightenment. John highlights the positive response to enlightenment, and Hebrews the negative.
Some might make a further distinction between enlightenments and their efficaciousness (I'll stay agnostic on that). But I think we can at least conclude that enlightened is not a specific term for a believer.
No, Expand your thinking - it is a general purpose term used for both saved and lost.Yes, we agree, you must be "enlightened" before you can believe in the light. So everyone saved was enlightened, but not everyone enlightened was saved.
Sort of like everyone saved was drawn, but not everyone drawn was saved.
Israel even in the flesh had more enlightenment than the Gentiles around them though both were lost.
"a general purpose term used for both saved and lost."
I don't think that's the case. Enlightenment turns to darkness if not responded to with faith. Perhaps better to refer to the lost as "once enlightened." And I don't think I can say that about all the lost, in the context of Hebrews, but there is a sense in Romans 1 and 2.
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LOL, you agree yet start with no.
[edit] Then again, there are some lost that are temporarily enlightened, and you didn't say all the lost, so maybe I agree, after all.
sorry about that, we disagree, not the end of the world though
actually IMO Hebrews is a book written to a "mixed multitude" - like FISH OR CUT BAIT!
OK so the author gives several warnings throughout the book that would work whether the recipients were religious but unsaved Jews or saved but doubting Jews or whatever the mix - mostly Jews though - the name of the book gives that away - HEBREWS.
unprofitable
Active Member
The teaching of principles of enlightenment are contained in the parable of the sower in Mt 13, Mk 4 and Lu 8. Enlightenment would include the ability to "see" or have light shown to one concerning the kingdom of God. Jn 3:3 Those under the darkness of types and shadows of the old covenant needed the light of the knowledge of the only true God in the face of Christ.
The Pharisees, Saducees, scribes, lawyers, etc experienced the revelation of the kingdom by the ministry of Christ and John the Baptist yet refused to accept what they saw.
The Pharisees, Saducees, scribes, lawyers, etc experienced the revelation of the kingdom by the ministry of Christ and John the Baptist yet refused to accept what they saw.
It depends on what context you are referring to. If you mean general revelation about God's existence, as in Romans 1, you can say that everyone has been enlightened. However, if you are talking about the order of salvation (the process by which a sinner is converted and comes to faith in Christ), enlightenment is part of regeneration.
You all ready know that I disagree and not only that you have no scripture that proves your view at all.
If Romans 1 20 to 21 isn't enough to believe in God then scripture must be wrong huh? Paul says they have no excuse
MB
I am not concerned if you disagree with me. I am of little consequence. Actually, my view simply echoes scripture. Romans 1:18-20 does not speak specifically of the knowledge of Christ through the gospel that leads to salvation. I do not have the time to be your tutor, so I will only comment on this briefly. Mankind is born with innate knowledge that there is a creator. That knowledge is not enough to lead to salvation. Romans 1:16 point this out when Paul states, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek." The gospel is called the means of salvation by theologians because without hearing and responding to it no one can be saved. Even though nature testifies to the fact that there is a God (Romans 1:20), that knowledge is not the same as the gospel message.
I disagree men can read the gospel and be saved. You could never be my tutor. That's really funny.
MB
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Men's minds are already darkened ( Romans 1:20-21, Ephesians 4:18-19 ).
Question 1) If Christ lights ( John 1:9 ) every man who comes into the world, and their minds are darkened, then what does "light" ( verb tense ) mean?
"Casts the light of truth on", or "reveals Himself in a meaningful way to the mind / heart"?
Question 2) Where does faith come from?
If someone needs faith in order to take advantage of the "enlightenment" and not fall back into darkness, then where does one get the faith to respond to the enlightenment...seeing that all men do not have faith ( 2 Thessalonians 3:2 )?
The question for this thread is, does enlightenment mean saved? Is it a reference to believers? The above are important questions, but I'd prefer for another thread.
That is wrong,about Heb 6 enlightenment must mean Salvation, true salvation
I think this post is a good discussion
Faith is the ability to believe , it does come from God as a choice
you base that on Heb 6 incorrectly.
There is a great message in the use of darkness and light
Dave G
Well-Known Member
You posted several Scriptures.
One calls Jesus the "light", in John 1:6, which agrees with John 8:12.
One deals with "enlightenment" or "enlightens" which is not the word that John 1:9 uses.
It uses "lights" ( or "lighteth" in the AV ), which to me, means "casts light on", or "casts the light of truth on".
Please see John 3:19-20, where men do not come to the Light, lest their deeds should be reproved.
They hate the light, and hate the Light.
No, I do not believe "enlightened" means "saved".
Again, I think it means "lights", as in, "casts the light of truth on".
All men are without excuse ( Romans 1:18-20 ).
Christ came to cast the light of truth not only on the Pharisees and their corruption of the Law ( John 8:45 ), but on all who do not believe.
Finally, the promise in John 12:35 is given to the Jews, who were under a covenant of Law through Moses.
They were bound to obey their Creator, who was standing right in front of them.
It is to them that He is appealing, because of the covenant that He made with the nation, and that the Israelites agreed to obey.
The reason that the book of Hebrews is worded the way that it is, is because of the Jews and their history of disobeying God.
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