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Does God adopt His own children?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salamander, Apr 12, 2006.

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  1. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist New Member

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    Bill, "dialoug" is spelled dialogue.
     
    #21 Calvibaptist, Apr 14, 2006
  2. Bill Brown

    Bill Brown New Member

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    I am just a simpul Calvinust frum New Joisey. If ewe have a problum wid dat speek to my cusin Joey.

    Forgedabodit
     
    #22 Bill Brown, Apr 14, 2006
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    But it DOES, and reformed theology snubs it's nose at it, or refuses to believe it because it would go against everything it stands for!
    Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
    Simple, Joe had faith in Christ, Ed didn't. Both were drawn, one responded. Why? Free choice. Why again? Don't know, Bible doesn't say.

    The Bible does not say why some believe, and some don't believe. Some more...

    Acts 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household."
    Romans 10:9 if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
     
    #23 webdog, Apr 14, 2006
  4. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist New Member

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    Actually, the Bible says exactly why some believe and some don't. Some believe because they have been chosen by God. Others don't believe because they haven't been chosen by God.

    What the Bible doesn't say is why God chose one and not another.
     
    #24 Calvibaptist, Apr 14, 2006
  5. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    you put the cart before the horse. God chooses some because they believe. He doesn't choose others because they don't. This is Scripture.

    Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    Nowhere in the Bible will you see salvation not based on a condition of believing.
     
    #25 webdog, Apr 14, 2006
  6. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist New Member

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    But, webdog, the choosing took place before the foundation of the world. Then they believe. You don't believe first and then God says, "Well, I guess I'll choose him then."

    Of course salvation is based on a condition of believing. Why do you guys keep putting words in our mouth. Just so you know, here is what we believe.

    1) God elects those whom He will save.
    2) God predestines them to eternal life.
    3) God sent His Son to die for them.
    4) God then draws them to Himself and regenerates them.
    5) They believe (because God gave them faith)
    6) They are now called saved.

    WE DO NOT BELIEVE ELECTION EQUALS SALVATION!!! It is only the first step taken by God in securing our salvation. Faith is a necessary step on our part. What we DO believe is that everyone who has been chosen WILL believe and be saved.
     
    #26 Calvibaptist, Apr 14, 2006
  7. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    Adoption has zero to do with being placed into the family in the Bible.
     
    #27 Hope of Glory, Apr 14, 2006
  8. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist New Member

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    So, what does adoption have to do with? If it doesn't involve sonship, inheritance, family, etc., why use the word "adoption?"
     
    #28 Calvibaptist, Apr 14, 2006
  9. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    It has everything to do with son-ship, inheritance, family etc. It has to do with placement within the family. It has to do with maturity. It has zero to do with being placed into the family (nativity).
     
    #29 Hope of Glory, Apr 14, 2006
  10. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Bigy question for the non-Calvinist: Why would God need to adopt those who had chosen to be born into His family in the first place? </font>[/QUOTE]Because God is Righteous and Isaiah 59. And those were only His from the foundations of the world because God knew who would receive the Gospel.
     
    #30 Salamander, Apr 15, 2006
  11. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Sal, it grieves me to see you stoop so low as to call Reformed believers cultists. You obviously know very little about the Reformation. To try and educate you would be fruitless since you are close-minded and not open to the truth.

    I joined the Baptist board for fruitful debate and will continue in that pursuit with all believers of goodwill whether they be Reformed or Arminian. But you sir will not be one of those I seek dialouge with. I may vehemently disagree with a fellow brother or sister in here on a particular point of doctrine but I have never hinted that someone was in a cult. You owe all believers in here an apology....Arminian and Calvinist.     </font>[/QUOTE]No, a cult is exposed by it's dogmatic approach in interpreting the Bible and thereby establishing it's false doctrine, I owe no one an apology, I do owe everyone the chance to hear the Gospel without any calvinistic bias. When you cause a schizm in the Body of Christ by calling some Calvinists and others Arminian you deserve the mark you begged for which is contrary to the doctrine of brotherly love.

    Calvinism is a cult. It's leader is a murderer.

    God only adopts those who were not worthy of sonship, including all people.

    If as the Calvinist believes God gave the seed of salvation to only the elect, then Ephesians 2 is not Canon. But Ephesians as in the whole of the Book is Canon. It disproves Calvinism.

    Dead in tresspasses ans sins is D E A D!
     
    #31 Salamander, Apr 15, 2006
  12. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    No, because to apply that type of reason or even the aspect of Roman tradition to the method of God adopting children is heretical in that no authority is given over God to allow God to adopt!

    To believe as you tried to relate by comparison the Spirit of Adoption denies the foremost doctrine of repentence. Repentence is a conscious choice to turn from sin to the Lord for salvation.

    Except ye REPENT! Ye shall ALL likewise PERISH!

    That is an ultimatum, not a formula.
     
    #32 Salamander, Apr 15, 2006
  13. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Keep throwing around "cult" and "heresy" and posts will be snipped.

    And calling Calvin a "murderer" contributes nothing to the conversation (if it can be called such) and serves only to inflame other posters.

    rsr
     
    #33 rsr, Apr 15, 2006
  14. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Yes, ususally the Truth does "inflame" other posters. Now please tell us why Calvin had Arminius put to death?

    I'm NOT "throwing" anything around. I made a point blank statement that cannot be dealt with ... [snipped as per previous warning]

    [Personal attack snipped]

    I fully understand the Romanesque form of adoption in it's effort to bring the adopted into a more financially able family and that person became their servant. I fully understand that I am the servant of the Lord due to His adopting me into His family.

    The Doctrine concerning adoption REFUTES Calvinism. Period!

    If this isn't a topic for debate, then why have a debate forum? If any debate is only considered as such to ONLY be acceptable to the false doctrines of Calvinism, then this should NOT be Baptist Board, but a Dutch Reformed Calvinists Board! [​IMG]

    [ April 18, 2006, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: rsr ]
     
    #34 Salamander, Apr 18, 2006
  15. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Salamander said:

    Sorry, but I have an English Bible and apply the Scripture to the English understanding and don't allow Roman catholocism to dictate what the Bible means.

    Um . . . you are aware that there is a difference between a "Roman" and a "Roman Catholic," right?
     
    #35 Ransom, Apr 18, 2006
  16. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    I would really like to hear your theory on "why Calvin had Arminius put to death". Please?
     
    #36 whatever, Apr 18, 2006
  17. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    I would really like to hear your theory on "why Calvin had Arminius put to death".

    Seconded. But wait till I've got the popcorn. [​IMG]
     
    #37 Ransom, Apr 18, 2006
  18. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    In the last year of Calvin's life he gave the 4-year-old Jacob a delayed-action injection with poison. So delayed was it ,that it did not result in Arminius' death until decades later . At least that's my theory .But I'm not sticking to that story necessarily .

    Oh, that's the how . Anyone else can step up to the plate and answer why . Maybe Calvin had the Arminian version of foreknowledge .
     
    #38 Rippon, Apr 18, 2006
  19. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Maybe Calvin had the Arminian version of foreknowledge .

    So Calvin didn't actually put Arminius to death, but just looked down the corridors of time and saw Arminius put himself to death?
     
    #39 Ransom, Apr 18, 2006
  20. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I don't know . These crazy fairy tales are too much for me . I am not as imaginative as some here . Real church history would be a start . That is non-fiction.
     
    #40 Rippon, Apr 18, 2006
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