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Does God adopt His own children?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salamander, Apr 12, 2006.

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  1. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    I'm noticing a pattern here. I'm not trying to be funny or insulting, but perhaps Salamander has some autism? He seems to go off on totally unrelated tangents in threads, and they read like half a conversation he's having with himself. I apologize if something else is going on, but that's how it strikes me. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not trying to be funny or insulting, but I've noticed your pattern of only seeing half the truth when you read your Bible. That is probably from reading only half a Bible and not a whole Bible.

    I apologize if you cannot discern what the Bible says and that you would rather hold to a tradition of men.

    There is not one passage found in the Bible that contradicts another passage when applied doctrinally. When it only seems to contradict another passage, it is due to the failure to understand certain periods of time being different at the time of penning the accounts down.

    To invent understandings to accomodate certain beliefs is damnable heresy, To maintain the harmony of every passage in comparison, all one has to do is read the rest of the Bible.

    Now for you and ransom: Since God knows them that are His, and God knows them that were not His, but has now through the Gospel of Jesus Christ adopted them into becoming now His people, either Calvinism is a lie, or God is confused and I don;t think you have confused God over anything in His Word. [​IMG]
     
    #61 Salamander, Apr 28, 2006
  2. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Salamander said:

    I have understood your arguement in favor of adoption "complimenting" election. I disagree. The Bible disagrees.

    You then go to great lengths not to defend this assertion with actual evidence.

    God says there were those who are not a people He would call His people.

    As a Calvinist, I agree.

    I firmly believe God knows them that are His.

    As a Calvinist, I agree.

    I also firmly believe God calls them to repentence who WILL become His people.

    As a Calvinist, I agree.

    I also believe the Bible when Jesus says "whosoever" and not as the Calvinists demand, "only-whososver".

    As a Bible-believing Christian, I disagree.

    Indeed, John 3:16 says that only whoever believes in Christ shall have eternal life. The others (the "whosoever won'ts") perish.

    Calvinists believe quite firmly in John 3:16, that whosoever believes in Christ shall not perish but have eternal life. We simply do not illicitly import the philosophical notion of libertarian free-will into the definition of "whosoever."

    I understand adoption in the light of Romanesque tradition, but you still fail to see that only the child adopted was adopted into another family, not his own. Just as God adopts from another family and not His own.

    I did not fail to see this; in fact, I said this. (What was that I said earlier? "Well, when you only see what you want to see, that is what happens.")

    God has only One Begotten Son. To follow your rendition of the Romanesque tradition, God would first have "cut-off" Jesus from the foundations of the world.

    This does not, in fact, follow my "rendition" at all. Sinners are adopted. Jesus is not.

    I'm sorry if I don't go into lengthy details to pinpoint the doctrinal truths for you.

    I'd be happy if you just interacted with what was actually said, instead of posting half a conversation you are apparently having with an imaginary friend.

    You cannot introduce heretical traditions as prooftext to doctrinal truth without the prooftext being exposed for it's heretical content.

    Another assertion ("heretical traditions") made without evidence. Isn't there enough nonsense in the world without you inventing more of it?

    God never adopts His own children, He births them in by and through the Gospel, for they were not His in the beginning

    Ladies and gentlemen . . . The Amazing Self-Refuting Statement.
     
    #62 Ransom, Apr 28, 2006
  3. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    #63 Salamander, Apr 29, 2006
  4. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Salamander's entire post, above, can be summarized in two words: "Is not!"

    Not worth interacting with.
     
    #64 Ransom, May 1, 2006
  5. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    I'm so glad, simply because you cannot refute the truth any other way and still maintain your belief system.

    Try the Bible on for size in perfect harmony and in absolute context and please, stop following the pernicious ways and doctrines of men, it'll only help you. [​IMG]
     
    #65 Salamander, May 2, 2006
  6. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    "Is not!"
     
    #66 Ransom, May 2, 2006
  7. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    OK, here's your chance to get the last word, and not in quotation marks.

    God can't adopt His own children, they're already His by adoption. [​IMG]
     
    #67 Salamander, May 4, 2006
  8. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    "Is not!"
     
    #68 Ransom, May 5, 2006
  9. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Ok, so "Is not" is all you is able to say.
     
    #69 Salamander, May 5, 2006
  10. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Only to you.

    Also, unless you are auditioning for a revival of Porgy and Bess, "is all you is" is exceedingly poor English.
     
    #70 Ransom, May 5, 2006
  11. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    natural born children of God,
    adopted into the family of God
    are two metaphors of the wonderful
    think that God has done for us through
    Messiah Yeshua in His resurrection from
    the dead. What good does it do to
    get metaphors confused? Can you spell
    MIXED METAPHORS?
     
    #71 Ed Edwards, May 6, 2006
  12. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Ok, so you also comprehend exceeingly poor English but yet cannot comprehend that God doesn't adopt His own children, no matter how many metaphors Ed Ed can twist into a metaphoric understanding. [​IMG]
     
    #72 Salamander, May 8, 2006
  13. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Ok, so you also comprehend exceeingly poor English but yet cannot comprehend that God doesn't adopt His own children

    I comprehend that just fine. Too bad for you it's not true.

    The Bible says that all who are led by the spirit of God are the children of God (Rom. 8:16); it stands to reason that those who do not have the Spirit are not God's children. The unregenerate are the children of wrath (Eph. 2:3) not the children of God; they are the children of the slave woman Hagar, not of the free woman Sarah (Gal. 4:31).
     
    #73 Ransom, May 8, 2006
  14. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    No wonder you are so confused, you failed to recognise we all were the children of wrath before we were saved by grace.

    Wasn't Baalim's donkey also led by the Spirit?

    I suppose his donkey was somehow birthed by Sarai?

    Taking things out of context opens the door to all sorts of bad theology, like yours for instance.
     
    #74 Salamander, May 8, 2006
  15. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    No wonder you are so confused, you failed to recognise we all were the children of wrath before we were saved by grace.

    Um, no, I didn't "fail to recognise" [sic] that. I just said it: "The unregenerate are the children of wrath." Learn to read!
     
    #75 Ransom, May 8, 2006
  16. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Oh, OK, then, so you believe all the unregenerate are somehow the children of Hagar then by being born again become the children of Sarai?

    I rather believe the Scripture that tells us that we were even the children of wrath before salvation, equally in need of grace and that God is still not a respector of persons.

    I read quite well, it is maybe that you need to learn to speak more coherently?
     
    #76 Salamander, May 9, 2006
  17. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Salamander asked:

    Oh, OK, then, so you believe all the unregenerate are somehow the children of Hagar then by being born again become the children of Sarai?

    And what is a transfer of family generally called? Adoption. Duh!
     
    #77 Ransom, May 9, 2006
  18. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Ok, so now you're telling me all the children of Abrahm are the children of Hagar though Isaac was born of Sarah but yet he is still the child of Hagar?????? And somehow all the children of promise are also counted for the seed of Abraham but they were first all the children of Hagar?

    Is Sarah somehow become the Saviour and displaced Jesus from the righthand of the Father?

    Next thing we know you'll be trying to tell us that Baalim's donkey was filled with the Holy Spirit and is also a child of Sarah.
     
    #78 Salamander, May 9, 2006
  19. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Salamander said:

    [useless babble ignored]

    Well, you had your chance to make sense, Salamander, but I have standards, and someone who is completely unreasonable and clearly proud of it, does not meet them.
     
    #79 Ransom, May 9, 2006
  20. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    OK, so you have standards, but you obviously need to update your standards or at least aim for some higher ones.

    Next thing we know you'll fashion a golden calf out of your "standards".
     
    #80 Salamander, May 10, 2006
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