Does God Change His Mind? Another Calvinist Conundrum

[Iconoclast]

Icon, I believe the God of scripture will indeed change his course of action (change his mind), particularly in response to the prayers, actions and response of His people.

None of this , or what has been said thus far in ANY WAY challenges the omniscience of God..... that was YOUR implication.

QF,
We will not be able to come to agreement on this QF. I think I know what you mean when you say it, but I believe that what IJ was critical of me about is actually the truth of the matter. I does indeed matter how it is viewed.
I am pressed for time ,need a short nap before heading west to CA, but i will try and offer more for you.

 

[quantumfaith]

QF,
We will not be able to come to agreement on this QF. I think I know what you mean when you say it, but I believe that what IJ was critical of me about is actually the truth of the matter. I does indeed matter how it is viewed.
I am pressed for time ,need a short nap before heading west to CA, but i will try and offer more for you.

Icon,

Here is my analysis (simple as it might be). I "think" that "you think" that I (and others like me who do not share the DoG point of theology) think that God is "incapable" of the kind of sovereignty that you suggest..... That is not true.
Rather, we see a God in scripture that is just as sovereign, but does respond to the prayers, cries and actions of his people.

Drive safely.

 

[Iconoclast]

Icon,

Here is my analysis (simple as it might be). I "think" that "you think" that I (and others like me who do not share the DoG point of theology) think that God is "incapable" of the kind of sovereignty that you suggest..... That is not true.
Rather, we see a God in scripture that is just as sovereign, but does respond to the prayers, cries and actions of his people.

Drive safely.

QF,

I am glad that we can find some agreement in that God has ordained prayer as a means to accomplish His will on the earth. The topic of prayer and prayer itself is quite interesting.That being said...we are told that God knows what we need and desire before we even ask.....

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. So basically when we pray we are agreeing with God on certain things that he has already instructed us about,then we submit our praise,and requests to him
That God hears and answers prayer,presupposes that he has the biblical God who has ordained whatsoever comes to pass.

The idea that I believe is completely unscriptural is that God ever needs or goes to plan B.....in response to man at all. There are times God set conditions before men,,,,the blessings and cursings for example in Deut 28.
At no time does God lack or need to learn anything, or any possible fact to adjust what he is doing at all.

When God uses language he communicates things to us.When scripture speaks of Him bearing His mighty arm, or coming down to see, etc it is not happening in the way it is spoken of, God being everywhere present.

Any such suggestion ...is not describing the biblical God. The god of open theism is not the biblical God. For professed Christians to says that God changes His mind......I find astonishing.

 

[quantumfaith]

QF,

I am glad that we can find some agreement in that God has ordained prayer as a means to accomplish His will on the earth. The topic of prayer and prayer itself is quite interesting.That being said...we are told that God knows what we need and desire before we even ask.....

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. So basically when we pray we are agreeing with God on certain things that he has already instructed us about,then we submit our praise,and requests to him
That God hears and answers prayer,presupposes that he has the biblical God who has ordained whatsoever comes to pass.

The idea that I believe is completely unscriptural is that God ever needs or goes to plan B.....in response to man at all. There are times God set conditions before men,,,,the blessings and cursings for example in Deut 28.
At no time does God lack or need to learn anything, or any possible fact to adjust what he is doing at all.

When God uses language he communicates things to us.When scripture speaks of Him bearing His mighty arm, or coming down to see, etc it is not happening in the way it is spoken of, God being everywhere present.

Any such suggestion ...is not describing the biblical God. The god of open theism is not the biblical God. For professed Christians to says that God changes His mind......I find astonishing.

FTR: I do not now, nor ever expect to consider myself of the OT flavor, although there are perhaps a few on this board who support OT principles.

 

[Iconoclast]

FTR: I do not now, nor ever expect to consider myself of the OT flavor, although there are perhaps a few on this board who support OT principles.

QF,

I know you do not...but if I recall correctly you were "looking into" these kind of writings a while back....be careful.Do not let the academic in you let you drink in ideas from a poisoned well....

19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

 

[quantumfaith]

QF,

I know you do not...but if I recall correctly you were "looking into" these kind of writings a while back....be careful.Do not let the academic in you let you drink in ideas from a poisoned well....

19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

I appreciate your concern and will consider it completely sincere. I have no problem considering intellectually "different" perspectives and taking from them what I "will". I KNOW by your definition, that I am in some degrees "liberal". That is ok with me. You will probably have "coronary" to know that I have been reading on the Documentary Hypothesis. Much there to consider to for me.

 

[Iconoclast]

quantumfaith

I appreciate your concern and will consider it completely sincere. I have no problem considering intellectually "different" perspectives and taking from them what I "will". I KNOW by your definition, that I am in some degrees "liberal". That is ok with me.

You will probably have "coronary" to know that I have been reading on the Documentary Hypothesis. Much there to consider to for me.

You have judged this ....correctly:thumbsup: You like to live on the edge QF'

Hey...some people enjoy skydiving..:laugh::laugh:

 

[HankD]

Of all the scripture this passage in Genesis (I didn't see it mentioned - maybe it was) is one of the most difficult for calivinism to explain:

Genesis 6

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.​

Yes the grace of God is exalted in this passage but only after the Lord
was "grieved" (how can created beings grieve God?) and consequently "repented" (remember, this is scripture).​

A few years ago an explanation of this passage was called an "anthropomorphism" but this is of neo-orthodoxy IMO.​

Was He grieved or not?
Did He repent or not?​

No, I am not of the Open Theology camp or a calvinist.​

KJV Genesis 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.​

ASV Genesis 6:6 And it repented Jehovah that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.​

NIV Genesis 6:6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.​

NIB Genesis 6:6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.​

NAS Genesis 6:6 And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.​

NAU Genesis 6:6 The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.​

RSV Genesis 6:6 And the LORD was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.​

NKJ Genesis 6:6 And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.​

HankD​

 

[faithgirl46]

The BIble says Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever No I don't believe God changes his mind

 

[quantumfaith]

The BIble says Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever No I don't believe God changes his mind

And what if you (or any of us) were the omnipotent and omniscient one who KNEW that any course of action we took or permitted would ultimately arrive with precisely the ultimate outcome we desired....are we changing our mind?