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Featured Does God Create Evil?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Revmitchell, Nov 19, 2015.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I will go ahead and respond directly to your post unlike any response by you. These verses are being taken out of context by you. I am sure it is not your intention but it is true none the less.

    The ESV translates that word evil in that verse as calamity. Just because a particular word is translated one way in one or more verses does not mean it must always be translated that way each and every time. I addressed the issue of context in the op. It seems you did not read it. I would suggest you go to your pastor and have him help you understand how words are placed in different contexts in scripture. He may be willing to give you a basic understanding of these things.

    Scripture does not tell us where evil originates. Scripture does not tell us that God made Satan evil. To suggest that is to speculate and form a view from silence rather than a clear declaration.

    This statement is question begging. One does not lead to the other.

    The ESV translates that as good and bad not good and moral evil.

    James 1:13 is in fact talking about a moral evil as that is the context. Since God cannot tempt us we understand that He does not author it.

    Darkness is nothing more than a lack of light. You control darkness by adding light. Same with moral evil. You control it by adding moral good. I described just how God controlled it in the op.
     
  2. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    It was not long ago this was discussed, but if evil does exist, then either God created it or something exists outside his sovereignty.
     
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  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Actually have addressed the lamentations verse twice now. It is the same context of the Isaiah passage. Both mean calamity not moral evil.

    Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things. (ESV)

    Isa 45:7 I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause trouble. I, the LORD, do all these things. (ERV)

    Isa 45:7 I am the giver of light and the maker of the dark; causing blessing, and sending troubles; I am the Lord, who does all these things. (BBE)

    Lam 3:38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and bad come? (ESV)

    Lam 3:38 Good and bad each happen at the command of God Most High. (CEV)
     
  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Because you are dealing with RM......that is not how he rollsGiggleGiggle;)
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    From The Problem of Evil;

    http://www.sgbcsv.org/literature/ProblemOfEvil.pdf
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    and again;
     
    #26 Iconoclast, Nov 19, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2015
  7. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    As I said before these verses aren't out of context...they are actually in the context of the entire book of Isaiah, the OT, and the entire Bible. I sighted as an example Isaiah 59:7 (from the same book) and Genesis 6:5 (from the OT). What were people running to in Isaiah 59:7? Were they running to calamity? No, they were running to evil.

    I guess we have the perfect translation in the ESV huh? I guess we should just ignore the Greek. A good translation has what's called "consistency of terms". The KJV and the ASV got it right.

    My religion and philosophy and biblical studies degrees show I have a bit more than a basic understanding of these things.

    Scripture does tell us...like I said in Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:38 and ALSO John 1:3, Romans 11:36, 1 Corinthians 8:6, and a score of other places:
    "All things were made through Him"
    "From Him are all things"
    "From God, the Father are all things"
    Is evil a thing? Yes. What things are from God? ALL things.

    If you would take the time to consider what the actual biblical languages says (and not put all your eggs in the ESV basket) you would see that רַע is moral evil...and it is in over 500 places in the OT.

    That's the point I was making...but you say evil is a lack of good. So you read James 1:13 as "God cannot be tempted with the absence of good nor does He tempt anyone with the absence of good." Does that make sense to you?

    So it sounds like you're saying evil is not a thing. Are you? Because the Scriptures speak of evil as a thing and not merely the negation of good. But if it's better for you to call evil the deprivation of good then God created that deprivation of good.

    Let's go back to basics. Deprivation is a noun. Is deprivation a person, or a place? No...it's a thing. And God is the creator of all things. If God didn't create that thing which is a deprivation of good called evil, then God didn't create all things. But we both know that Scriptures say He did.
     
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The context in other passages does not indicate nor dictate the context in Isaiah 45:7. If in fact you have the education you claim you should know this.
     
  9. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    Really? Wow...you really don't know what you're talking about. The definition of context is "with text". Context is king...every single time!! Whether it is pericopal, by chapters, by books, by genre, or by whole testaments or Scripture as a whole. Context is king!!
     
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  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    That is right context is King and I have not said anything contrary to that. How a particular word is used elsewhere in scripture does not determine context in this verse. I have started another thread on this verse. This discussion is better taking place there.
     
  11. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    That is an exegetical fallacy.
     
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  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No its not. In fact in his book on exegetical fallacies D.A.Carson said "To pursue proper word studies, the student must emphasize current usage in a given context (usus loquendi)". pg.21

    In fact it is an absurd claim that because it is used elsewhere in scripture means has to to be the same as the others. Anyway I deal with this verse in greater detail in my thread titled by this verse. I make it clear about the usage of this verse and context.
     
    #32 Revmitchell, Nov 20, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
  13. Calypsis4

    Calypsis4 Member

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    I saw a reply to my earlier request but every post from #24 to #26 has been erased. Yet I saw one of those posts before you managed to erase it. In my reply that you just be kind enough to answer the scripture in Prov. 16:4 ¶ The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil...and also Job 21:30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath... you said, in part;

    "But that's not the way RM operates."

    My goodness, what a arrogant statement. Actually, RM, I happen to agree with you on this subject but I wanted to see how a like-minded brother answers things point blank without human interpretation being involved. I was prepared to take up your cause and stand with you but I'm not going to do that now.

    Two things I've learned about you since I joined this board last spring; (1) you are not a nice person, and (2) you assume things ....horribly.

    Oh, well. Best wishes anyway. I think I'll check out of B.B. for awhile.
     
  14. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    That makes no sense...especially if you read the original languages. If I read a book in English and I came upon the word "wicked" on page 2 and then I jumped to page 50 and saw "wicked" again it would be absurd for me to think "Oh the definition of wicked has changed here".

    And you still haven't addressed post #27.
     
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    It is not absurd. Words can carry different meaning based on the context. Who is it that does not know this? Anyway we have wore this out. I have nothing further to add. If you want to discuss more you can pop over to the other thread and address what I have posted there. I will not respond to posts like "those so called theologians".
     
  16. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    You've made this all about Isaiah 45 when I've said more than that in post #27...which you still haven't responded to.
     
  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Not sure what your hold up is with going to that thread but I don't care about post # 27. I know you believe with all your heart it is important. I do not. I do not know how to describe it in a nice way so I will just leave it at that. I do not care to go back and forth endlessly. If you do not care to take a look at the other thread then we can just end it here.
     
  18. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    So you post a thread, but when you're given a response that you can't refute you just leave it alone? So this makes your other thread an ignoratio elenchi. And this proves the point I made in another thread...
    Thanks for proving this correct. Thumbsup
     
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    This is why no one likes talking with you guys. You do not know my motivation other than what I said. This post was childish, self serving, etc. Thanks for proving my point..
     
  20. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    You guys don't like talking with us because you hate being wrong...that's what's childish and self serving. And once again the fruit of your motive is found in running away from the issue.
     
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