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Does God judge and comdemn Sodom For Sins, or for gay lifestyles?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
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FYI, from the book of Jasher, chap 18:
11 In those days all the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, and of the whole five cities, were exceedingly wicked and sinful against the Lord and they provoked the Lord with their abominations, and they strengthened in aging abominably and scornfully before the Lord, and their wickedness and crimes were in those days great before the Lord.
12 And they had in their land a very extensive valley, about half a day's walk, and in it there were fountains of water and a great deal of herbage surrounding the water.
13 And all the people of Sodom and Gomorrah went there four times in the year, with their wives and children and all belonging to them, and they rejoiced there with timbrels and dances.
14 And in the time of rejoicing they would all rise and lay hold of their neighbor's wives, and some, the virgin daughters of their neighbors, and they enjoyed them, and each man saw his wife and daughter in the hands of his neighbor and did not say a word.
15 And they did so from morning to night, and they afterward returned home each man to his house and each woman to her tent; so they always did four times in the year.
16 Also when a stranger came into their cities and brought goods which he had purchased with a view to dispose of there, the people of these cities would assemble, men, women and children, young and old, and go to the man and take his goods by force, giving a little to each man until there was an end to all the goods of the owner which he had brought into the land.
17 And if the owner of the goods quarreled with them, saying, What is this work which you have done to me, then they would approach to him one by one, and each would show him the little which he took and taunt him, saying, I only took that little which thou didst give me; and when he heard this from them all, he would arise and go from them in sorrow and bitterness of soul, when they would all arise and go after him, and drive him out of the city with great noise and tumult.
Chap 19:
24 At that time the wife of Lot bare him a daughter, and he called her name Paltith, saying, Because God had delivered him and his whole household from the kings of Elam; and Paltith daughter of Lot grew up, and one of the men of Sodom took her for a wife.
25 And a poor man came into the city to seek a maintenance, and he remained in the city some days, and all the people of Sodom caused a proclamation of their custom not to give this man a morsel of bread to eat, until he dropped dead upon the earth, and they did so.
26 And Paltith the daughter of Lot saw this man lying in the streets starved with hunger, and no one would give him any thing to keep him alive, and he was just upon the point of death.
27 And her soul was filled with pity on account of the man, and she fed him secretly with bread for many days, and the soul of this man was revived.
28 For when she went forth to fetch water she would put the bread in the water pitcher, and when she came to the place where the poor man was, she took the bread from the pitcher and gave it him to eat; so she did many days.
29 And all the people of Sodom and Gomorrah wondered how this man could bear starvation for so many days.
30 And they said to each other, This can only be that he eats and drinks, for no man can bear starvation for so many days or live as this man has, without even his countenance changing; and three men concealed themselves in a place where the poor man was stationed, to know who it was that brought him bread to eat.
31 And Paltith daughter of Lot went forth that day to fetch water, and she put bread into her pitcher of water, and she went to draw water by the poor man's place, and she took out the bread from the pitcher and gave it to the poor man and he ate it.
32 And the three men saw what Paltith did to the poor man, and they said to her, It is thou then who hast supported him, and therefore has he not starved, nor changed in appearance nor died like the rest.
33 And the three men went out of the place in which they were concealed, and they seized Paltith and the bread which was in the poor man's hand.
34 And they took Paltith and brought her before their judges, and they said to them, Thus did she do, and it is she who supplied the poor man with bread, therefore did he not die all this time; now therefore declare to us the punishment due to this woman for having transgressed our law.
35 And the people of Sodom and Gomorrah assembled and kindled a fire in the street of the city, and they took the woman and cast her into the fire and she was burned to ashes.
11 In those days all the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, and of the whole five cities, were exceedingly wicked and sinful against the Lord and they provoked the Lord with their abominations, and they strengthened in aging abominably and scornfully before the Lord, and their wickedness and crimes were in those days great before the Lord.
12 And they had in their land a very extensive valley, about half a day's walk, and in it there were fountains of water and a great deal of herbage surrounding the water.
13 And all the people of Sodom and Gomorrah went there four times in the year, with their wives and children and all belonging to them, and they rejoiced there with timbrels and dances.
14 And in the time of rejoicing they would all rise and lay hold of their neighbor's wives, and some, the virgin daughters of their neighbors, and they enjoyed them, and each man saw his wife and daughter in the hands of his neighbor and did not say a word.
15 And they did so from morning to night, and they afterward returned home each man to his house and each woman to her tent; so they always did four times in the year.
16 Also when a stranger came into their cities and brought goods which he had purchased with a view to dispose of there, the people of these cities would assemble, men, women and children, young and old, and go to the man and take his goods by force, giving a little to each man until there was an end to all the goods of the owner which he had brought into the land.
17 And if the owner of the goods quarreled with them, saying, What is this work which you have done to me, then they would approach to him one by one, and each would show him the little which he took and taunt him, saying, I only took that little which thou didst give me; and when he heard this from them all, he would arise and go from them in sorrow and bitterness of soul, when they would all arise and go after him, and drive him out of the city with great noise and tumult.
Chap 19:
24 At that time the wife of Lot bare him a daughter, and he called her name Paltith, saying, Because God had delivered him and his whole household from the kings of Elam; and Paltith daughter of Lot grew up, and one of the men of Sodom took her for a wife.
25 And a poor man came into the city to seek a maintenance, and he remained in the city some days, and all the people of Sodom caused a proclamation of their custom not to give this man a morsel of bread to eat, until he dropped dead upon the earth, and they did so.
26 And Paltith the daughter of Lot saw this man lying in the streets starved with hunger, and no one would give him any thing to keep him alive, and he was just upon the point of death.
27 And her soul was filled with pity on account of the man, and she fed him secretly with bread for many days, and the soul of this man was revived.
28 For when she went forth to fetch water she would put the bread in the water pitcher, and when she came to the place where the poor man was, she took the bread from the pitcher and gave it him to eat; so she did many days.
29 And all the people of Sodom and Gomorrah wondered how this man could bear starvation for so many days.
30 And they said to each other, This can only be that he eats and drinks, for no man can bear starvation for so many days or live as this man has, without even his countenance changing; and three men concealed themselves in a place where the poor man was stationed, to know who it was that brought him bread to eat.
31 And Paltith daughter of Lot went forth that day to fetch water, and she put bread into her pitcher of water, and she went to draw water by the poor man's place, and she took out the bread from the pitcher and gave it to the poor man and he ate it.
32 And the three men saw what Paltith did to the poor man, and they said to her, It is thou then who hast supported him, and therefore has he not starved, nor changed in appearance nor died like the rest.
33 And the three men went out of the place in which they were concealed, and they seized Paltith and the bread which was in the poor man's hand.
34 And they took Paltith and brought her before their judges, and they said to them, Thus did she do, and it is she who supplied the poor man with bread, therefore did he not die all this time; now therefore declare to us the punishment due to this woman for having transgressed our law.
35 And the people of Sodom and Gomorrah assembled and kindled a fire in the street of the city, and they took the woman and cast her into the fire and she was burned to ashes.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Sexual immorality is VERY broad. That's not one specific form of sexual immorality.
You need to reread it. It says more than that.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
You seem to be creating new Scripture or are having a problem reading what the pages of Scripture say. Jude says NOTHING about homosexuality. It says sexual immorality.
No sir it is you who fails to read all of that verse. I will leave you to your little agenda.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Then you feel free to post the rest of it and show us where the Book of Jude says homosexuality.
And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, 7just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. 8Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties.…
says that they didi groos imorarlity AND sexual perversion, and THAT activity was what we coined the term Sodomy wa, as the men in town wanted to do THAT to the 2 male angels, that is how reprobate they had become!
paul, Jude and God Himself ALL agree that this sin practice/behaviour is in some regards a "special case of sinning!"
Well old Zaac is intentionally ignoring what that verse says after sexual immorality. He tends to ignore facts.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Well ole rev seems to still not found a Bible that says homosexuality in Jude. I guess you just ignore Scripture in lieu of what you think it should say.
is the word bible or trinity found in the bible itsef Zaac?
there is the term for gross perversion , going after starnge flesh, and paul in Romams describes that as being HOMOSEXULALITY, and that the men of Sodom were involved in that kind of sinning, as in genesis!
men having sex acts done with each other, would you call that being Homosexual or not?
And strnage on the passage in the greek refers to not normal/other/unusually, so again, does this not tie into paul in Romans 1?
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Zaac
Well-Known Member
Nobody asked you about the word bible or trinity did they Yeshua?
And in what language does that exclusively equate to homosexuality?
And in what language does that exclusively equate to homosexuality?
Scriptural reference?
So please show us in Scripture where God says HE destroyed Sodom primarily or solely because men were having sex with other men?
I cannot give anymore than what i have, as paul and Jude BOTh agree with me on this issue, and God does also, as shown in genesis account!
they had amny sin issues in Sodom, but God judged and destroyed for going after unnatural affections!
Zaac
Well-Known Member
If Paul and Jude agreed with you, you could state the Scripture where it says that the primary or sole reason for God destroying Sodom to be the reason you say.
You have yet to present said Scripture.
You still have no Biblical legs to stand on with that assertion.
jude ststed that God judged and destroyed them for going after strange flesh, for being in sexual perversion, HAD to be active homosexual sodomy and other sex perversions going down!
Jude listed that, God recorded that the men in Sodom had vile affections, going after other men, so what else could it have been?
Do you think God should NOT have down any of that to them?
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Man just stop. The very Scripture you keep mentioning says AND which shows that even that Scripture is referencing more than one thing. Of course there was homosexuality there. But your false teaching keeps trying to make homosexuality the primary and sole reason for why God destroyed the city and that simply doesn't align with Scripture.
How about no righteous people committing all sorts of acts of sexual immorality and perversion?
How about what Scarlett quoted from Ezekiel Now this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, plenty of food, and comfortable security, but didn’t support the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before Me?
You just want the primary and sole reason to be homosexuality. Scripture disagrees with ya.
Do you think God should NOT have down any of that to them?[/QUOTE]
God did the same thing to them that both you and I and every other sinner deserves. But He didn't do it just because of homosexuality.
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All of those sins exist in every city.The text in jude is clear what brought the judgement the attempted sodomite rape of the angels is clear.
they were not being judged for idleness or neglecting the poor, or because they did not offer the visitor's some hot coco.....to ignore the teaching of lev 18 as an abomination that causes judgement on the land to a point where God says the land vomits out the inhabitants is a mis-handling of the word of God.
here are the references....
The sexual perversion was clearly singled out as the very reason for the destruction.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner,
giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh,
are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jude was not confused by it at all as the Spirit had him write it.
In EZK 16...the attitude that lead to the sin was described, but the reason for the destruction was also very clear...all those sins lead to...commiting abomination..as described in the law in LEV...18;
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled
28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the Lord your God.
49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
then we have this;
1 Kings 14:24
And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the Lord cast out before the children of Israel.
1 Kings 15:12
And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.
1 Kings 22:46
And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.
2 Kings 23:7
And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the Lord, where the women wove hangings for the grove.
yet, zaac will still say that NONE of those verses shows us thet God judged and still does judge sexual sinning such as active homosexuality!
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