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Does God love all?
- Thread starter Pastor_Bob
- Start date
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Here is the verse. Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
How are you treating this verse carefully with your statement? First, does the word “if” mean anything? If we take the position that all will hear the gospels message, and this verse proves it, it also proves that such has NOT been the case until such a time as He is lifted up. Certainly one should be able to see clearly the fallacy of such a position.
To me it is obvious that Christ is not speaking of the event of His crucifixion, but rather is speaking concerning the fact that when He is lifted up through the preaching of the Word, He indeed will draw all that hear to Himself, even if all that hear do not respond favorably.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Excellent question for those that like to say that ‘all’ means all, evidently without exception. We can indeed start posting a litany of verses with the word ‘all’ and see how far some are willing to apply it to ‘all’ inclusively.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Amy.G said:
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
God's Word declares all. God's Word is true.
Remember the parable of the sower and the seed? How some fell along the wayside, some on stony ground, some among thorns, some in fertile ground? The Spirit will fall upon all just as God's Word declares.
Peter declared that that portion of the prophecy of Joel had happened. Now we know many allowed that seed to take root, for about 3000 souls were added to the Church that day. and the the Lord added to the Church daily such as should be saved.
I believe everyone that day... not just in the Upper Room, but all over the world, experienced that pouring out of the Spirit. Not all received ti.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Heavenly Pilgrim said:
His speaking of being lifted up from the earth was speaking of His crucifixion. He showed us that in John 3 when He stated 'Even as Moses lifted the serpent in the wilderness, the Son of man must be lifted up.'
How was the serpent lifted up? Nailed to a pole. How was the Son of man lifted up? Nailed to a cross.
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Rippon said:
No, it is God's Word... and I'm stickin' to it.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Amy.G said:
They experienced the outpouring of the Spirit, Amy. They did not receive it.
All means all.
This issue has been so much well dealt with in the book titled " What Love is this" by Dave Hunt.
Luke 14:
26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple.
Does Jesus want us to hate out father and mother while we should respect them as per the ten commandments?
Less love is correct interpretation.
The god described by the Calvin and Calvinists is a kinda monster.
God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have ever lasting life.
Is the World only the Elect?
1 Tim 4
10 (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
Doesn't All men include Unbelievers as well, in addition Believers?
Romans 9:
12 not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
Did Esau ever serve Jacob? Read Genesis! Have you ever read Genesis 28-36?
Jacob called Esau " Adonai", My Lord. Genesis 33:13-16
Esau never called Jacob "Adonai" nor served Jacob at all.
Then was the propecy of the Bible wrong?
It is the propecy by the Foreknowledge for the difference between 2 nations, not the individual Salvation, etc!
Were all Israelites chosen and saved? How many percentage of Israelites were saved? At the time of Elijah, how many people didn't kneel down to Baal? Only 7 thousand ! Were the 400 Baal worshippers who were killed by Elijah chosen and elected by God because they were Israelites?
Limited Atonement is groundless according to the Bible.
1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
ALL means ALL ! Unbelievers rejected it and the Pouring didn't benefit them !
Luke 14:
26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple.
Does Jesus want us to hate out father and mother while we should respect them as per the ten commandments?
Less love is correct interpretation.
The god described by the Calvin and Calvinists is a kinda monster.
God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have ever lasting life.
Is the World only the Elect?
1 Tim 4
10 (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
Doesn't All men include Unbelievers as well, in addition Believers?
Romans 9:
12 not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
Did Esau ever serve Jacob? Read Genesis! Have you ever read Genesis 28-36?
Jacob called Esau " Adonai", My Lord. Genesis 33:13-16
Esau never called Jacob "Adonai" nor served Jacob at all.
Then was the propecy of the Bible wrong?
It is the propecy by the Foreknowledge for the difference between 2 nations, not the individual Salvation, etc!
Were all Israelites chosen and saved? How many percentage of Israelites were saved? At the time of Elijah, how many people didn't kneel down to Baal? Only 7 thousand ! Were the 400 Baal worshippers who were killed by Elijah chosen and elected by God because they were Israelites?
Limited Atonement is groundless according to the Bible.
1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
ALL means ALL ! Unbelievers rejected it and the Pouring didn't benefit them !
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Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
Perhaps the meaning of the passage where God says he loves Jacob and hates Esau is that God elevated Jacob to a higher position than he did Esau. Jesus said that unless we "hate" father, mother, brother, sister, etc..., we cannot be his disciple. He may be saying that if we elevate these people above our relationship to Him, then we cannot be His disciple.
I do not believe it has anything to do with the human emotions of love or hate.
I do not believe it has anything to do with the human emotions of love or hate.
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Behind the Calvinism and Augustinians, there is a huge misunderstanding about God.
There are many things that the Almighty, Omnipotent and Omniscient God CANNOT do.
He cannot cheat the people, cannot tell lies, cannot accept the Unbelievers into His Kingdom, cannot forgive the sinners without punishment( or redemption), cannot coerce the faith unto the people, cannot force the people to love Him ( because the forced Love is not the Love by its nature), etc.
The god described by Calvinisits who predestined the billions of people not to believe in Jesus and thereby to go to the Hell eternity before their birth, though He could have saved them if He wanted to, should go to the Hell !
There are many things that the Almighty, Omnipotent and Omniscient God CANNOT do.
He cannot cheat the people, cannot tell lies, cannot accept the Unbelievers into His Kingdom, cannot forgive the sinners without punishment( or redemption), cannot coerce the faith unto the people, cannot force the people to love Him ( because the forced Love is not the Love by its nature), etc.
The god described by Calvinisits who predestined the billions of people not to believe in Jesus and thereby to go to the Hell eternity before their birth, though He could have saved them if He wanted to, should go to the Hell !
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
Pharoah - yes, Esau - no.Rippon said:
Another deception is about Paraoh explained in Romans 9!
Calvinists do not remember Exodus 3:19
19 And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand.
The Omniscient God foreknew that Paraoh the king of Egypt will not let Israel go in advance and therefore He utilize the evil intention for His purpose and let him do as he wished, and therefore
Exodus 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.
Does this relate to the Salvation? NOPE!
God used the evil thoughts of the evil person for the good purpose of delivering Israel because God foreknew Paraoh would not let them go !
Kazak means " strengthen", God didn't discourage Paraoh when he tried to do his will, because God knew that he would not try to change his mind and reject His Words, and because God wanted him to deceive himself, so that he will be used for His purpose.
We must closely distinguish between Foreknowledge and Predestination.
Calvinists do not remember Exodus 3:19
19 And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand.
The Omniscient God foreknew that Paraoh the king of Egypt will not let Israel go in advance and therefore He utilize the evil intention for His purpose and let him do as he wished, and therefore
Exodus 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.
Does this relate to the Salvation? NOPE!
God used the evil thoughts of the evil person for the good purpose of delivering Israel because God foreknew Paraoh would not let them go !
Kazak means " strengthen", God didn't discourage Paraoh when he tried to do his will, because God knew that he would not try to change his mind and reject His Words, and because God wanted him to deceive himself, so that he will be used for His purpose.
We must closely distinguish between Foreknowledge and Predestination.