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Does God love the lost?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by SheepWhisperer, Jul 20, 2017.

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  1. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    Such prayers are pointless since he chose whoever he would save before the foundation of earth....unless you imply your prayers can change his choices
     
    #121 Agent47, Jul 29, 2017
  2. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    God defines what love is. We follow God's definition.
    Far too many people condemn God because His ways do not fir into their personal definitions.
    God says He is love. Whatever God does is love, not because we think it is love, but because the Creator says he is love.
     
    #122 MennoSota, Jul 29, 2017
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  3. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps emoji's are hard for you to follow. Relax. Sit down with Spurgeon and smoke a cigar.
     
    #123 MennoSota, Jul 29, 2017
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  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    1 John 4:8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

    HankD
     
    #124 HankD, Jul 29, 2017
  5. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Why do we pray? Is it for God’s sake or ours?
    Since we do not know who God has placed in the Lambs Book of Life, we cannot say that life is meaningless. I suggest that until we are redeemed we should eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.
     
    #125 MennoSota, Jul 29, 2017
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  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Perhaps the difference is in the centrality of God versus the centrality of man in the argument. If God's ultimate will in salvation is focused on the well being and desires of those who will not believe then is God's love expressing this will the same to that people (can we say God loves them)? And here I'd have to say no, we would say that God does not love them (He's either hateful or apathetic).

    But if God's will in salvation is focused on His glory then it is different. Perhaps the Father's love for the Son and the Son's love for the Church is where we need to be looking. If this is where we focus, then God's love is demonstrated equally in the choosing and the not choosing because at the center is Christ (not men).

    God loves the lost as a Creator loves His creation. But God loves those who are "in Christ" as a Father loves the Son.
     
    #126 JonC, Jul 29, 2017
  7. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    That's a fact. What's not is the claim that choosing and not choosing men demonstrate His love
     
    #127 Agent47, Jul 29, 2017
  8. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    I'd say throwing in glory into the works does not help you; it muddies the water even more for it suggests eternal life/damnation equally glorify God, and if this is so, both should be celebrated and perhaps longed for in equal measure

    God does not love the lost as a Father loves the Son. Thank you for answering OP
     
    #128 Agent47, Jul 29, 2017
  9. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    You're right, we should gamble. Eternity is a gamble
     
    #129 Agent47, Jul 29, 2017
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Before I posted I thought, unfortunately, that you might. I say unfortunately because Scripture ascribes the love of salvation to be purposed for the glory of God (I wasn't throwing it in....anytime we speak of salvation it is already there).
    Yes, exactly. Before you and I were saved we were lost and God did not love us as children.
     
    #130 JonC, Jul 29, 2017
  11. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    I'd like to believe that OP is not addressing our past state of unbelief but rather those who are eternally damned when they used the term lost. I hope this is no deliberate bait and switch
     
    #131 Agent47, Jul 29, 2017
  12. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    @JonC , this is not difficult. If God's love for you was demonstrated in choosing you before you were born, separating you, effectually drawing you to Himself, forgiving your sins,baptizing you with His Holy Ghost, and sealing you up unto that day, then the next guy who is not a beneficiary of all these,and who perished in his sins,can't be said to be loved by God as you are.

    But if God loved you equally, had mercy on you,willed that you be saved, and offered to save you, and you accepted His offer while the other rejected it,then truly,logically and honestly, God loved you both equally
     
    #132 Agent47, Jul 29, 2017
  13. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    That is your opinion based upon your human definition of love. I reject your opinion.
     
    #133 MennoSota, Jul 29, 2017
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  14. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Nope. Eternity is by God's ordination and will, which he is under no obligation to reveal to us.
     
    #134 MennoSota, Jul 29, 2017
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  15. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    God's definition of love includes saving and not saving? Cool.

    Beats me why we should get picky between lake of fire and New Jerusalem seeing all are expression of God's love
     
    #135 Agent47, Jul 30, 2017
  16. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    It's a gamble in that you can't tell if you are ordained and willed to eternal life or damnation. Guess,hope and pray...all of which don't affect God's 'ordination and will'
     
    #136 Agent47, Jul 30, 2017
  17. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    God's definition of love is certainly different than yours.
     
    #137 MennoSota, Jul 30, 2017
  18. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Enjoy life on this earth in either case. Our times are in God's hand.
     
    #138 MennoSota, Jul 30, 2017
  19. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 8 PM Pacific.
     
    #139 Squire Robertsson, Jul 30, 2017
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The lost are the lost (we were once lost). There are no "lost but not really" people, and there is no difference between the love God had for me when I was lost than the love God had for any man who died without coming to Christ. The difference is that there is a difference between God's love for me in Christ and God's love for those of the world.
     
    #140 JonC, Jul 30, 2017
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