Does God love the lost?

[MennoSota]

You keep calling what I believe "universalism" but you have also been shown that this is a false accusation: "universalists" believe that all will be saved. I do not.....and I have told you that several times.

What you share is universalism. Whether you can accept universalism is irrelevant. You preach it.

 

[HankD]

Do C followers not accept that God is gracious to all, calls all, offers to all though He knows who will not accept him (e.g. Cain) yet still makes the offer, thereby fulfilling all righteousness.

Kind of like a corollary of the Arminius foreknowledge theory.

Not that this is my view.

SW could you accept that scenario?

HankD

 

[utilyan]

Name one time you have asked an intelligent question.

You are very intelligent Menno. I don't believe these question are troublesome that you have to attack my character.

Is the problem here that you have made God in your own image, one who uses deception and lies about desires?

I don't think so. I believe you are a honorable person and you should be able to handle these questions.



Name one person who God wants to sin against him.

Even if you don't have a name, is there someone who God wants to sin against him?


Does God desire you to sin? I guess you will never sin again.

Or is God too weak to get his own desire?



Christians can answer the above questions right away without hesitation.

A follower of a false god can't because......"their god is puny".

 

[MennoSota]

You are very intelligent Menno. I don't believe these question are troublesome that you have to attack my character.

Is the problem here that you have made God in your own image, one who uses deception and lies about desires?

I don't think so. I believe you are a honorable person and you should be able to handle these questions.



Name one person who God wants to sin against him.

Even if you don't have a name, is there someone who God wants to sin against him?


Does God desire you to sin? I guess you will never sin again.

Or is God too weak to get his own desire?



Christians can answer the above questions right away without hesitation.

A follower of a false god can't because......"their god is puny".

Your question is silly and unanswerable. It's like asking you to name one person who eats with his anus.
See how silly you're being?

 

[utilyan]

Your question is silly and unanswerable. It's like asking you to name one person who eats with his anus.
See how silly you're being?

So you are saying God wants no one to sin?

 

[tyndale1946]

Yes, God loves the lost. In fact, God loved the lost by sending His Son that those who believe will not only have life but would have a life of spiritual abundance.

OH YEAH!... You know when I think of this song by John Newton, there is no doubt in my mind that God loves the lost... He wouldn't have done what he did if he didn't... This old song is a favorite of mine... You know it!... Sing Along... Brother Glen

Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found;
Was blind, but now I see.

 

[MennoSota]

So you are saying God wants no one to sin?

I am saying you are a silly man.

 

[utilyan]

I am saying you are a silly man.

Every time you lose the debate you insult people.



Name one person who God wants to sin against him.

Even if you don't have a name, is there someone who God wants to sin against him?


Does God desire you to sin? I guess you will never sin again.

Or is God too weak to get his own desire?

 

[MennoSota]

Every time you lose the debate you insult people.



Name one person who God wants to sin against him.

Even if you don't have a name, is there someone who God wants to sin against him?


Does God desire you to sin? I guess you will never sin again.

Or is God too weak to get his own desire?

View attachment 1631

I'm not debating with you. Everyone knows you are clueless in regard to Arminianism and Calvinism. You just bring silliness to the board.

 

[utilyan]

I'm not debating with you. Everyone knows you are clueless in regard to Arminianism and Calvinism. You just bring silliness to the board.

What you are saying is:





Does God desire you to sin? <--- such a tough question.


The Command of God is CLEAR with what he wants. And his sovereignty is absolute. And you can't harmonize both things.


Does God desire you to sin? I guess you will never sin again.

Or is God too weak to get his own desire?


A christian can answer this easily.

 

[MennoSota]

What you are saying is:





Does God desire you to sin? <--- such a tough question.


The Command of God is CLEAR with what he wants. And his sovereignty is absolute. And you can't harmonize both things.


Does God desire you to sin? I guess you will never sin again.

Or is God too weak to get his own desire?


A christian can answer this easily.

Nope. I'm saying you are silly.

 

[utilyan]

Nope. I'm saying you are silly.

I'm just going to enjoy this steamroll over you.

 

[utilyan]

Mark 4
14“The sower sows the word. 15“These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them.


So umm..... Why would Satan come and take away the word when it is already naturally rejected by mankind?

Did Satan not get the memo that all are totally depraved?

 

[MennoSota]

I bet you know all the answers to your silly questions. I'll wait for you to show me scripture answering each question you ask.

 

[Agent47]

And when you understand that you will understand Monergism.

Tags and boxes are no reason

 

[Agent47]

For His own Sovereign reason.

Do you believe God is obligated to adopt all humanity?

Is God unloving if he only adopts some and not all?

Is God unfair to adopt some, but not all?

What is so good in any human that God would even choose to adopt one, let alone many?

Why are humans damned?

Are they damned because an unloving God unjustly damn them?

Are they damned because a loving God justly judges and condemns them as lawbreakers?

Many questions for you to answer regarding the biblical truths of adoption.

However you define love, two mutually exclusive acts can't point to love. God loves in choosing and He loves for not choosing some. That's pure unadulterated nonsense

 

[Agent47]

I agree - the saved are all of those who God effectually calls. I wouldn't say that the "general call" is an unsuccessful attempt to save all (no more than the Law was an unsuccessful attempt of redemption). The general call is, I believe, God telling the world that salvation is here, that He is faithful to His word and if any turn to Him in repentance He will be faithful to forgive their sins. This is love, and it is a legitimate offer of salvation. At the same time I believe that this "sets the stage" for God's recreation of mankind in Christ Jesus. The Father gives the sheep to the Son, and the Son loses none whom the Father gives. The difference here is that some believe the sheep were always sheep. To use an illustration about the Judgment, I believe that I was once a goat but God worked supernaturally in me so that I am a new creature (I don't think we can refer to the lost as a sheep until he is found, or elect until he is saved).

But if you talk about, to borrow again from Spurgeon, God's "choice portion" then it is His people. And yes, God loves the Church in a way that God does not love the World.
There are no "totally uncalled".
I believe that God chose not to choose everyone.Those God did not save He still created and I believe for a purpose. I think that God created the "vessels of wrath" for His own glory. While we may find it difficult to understand now, I think that we can accept this now and understand later. Personally, I don't have the same barrier (not seeing the logic).

If I love God then I hate sin. Is not my hate for sin an expression of my love for God? If a man loves his wife then he opposes anything that would harm her. Is not this negative (opposing things/people that would harm his wife) an expression of the positive (a man's love for his wife)? If God loves lost people so that he saves some, is not God's rightful judgment against those who remain opposed to Him (the reprobate) not an expression of God's love and is this not an expression of God's own glory? I believe so. But I understand this can be a philosophical argument and people disagree.

Everything you're saying I'm in agreement. But my point is His love as we know/comprehend it being demonstrated in choosing can't equally be demonstrated in not choosing.

That's essentially saying God is Love His choices notwithstanding. And in that case, you can't appeal to His choices to demonstrate love

The 'totally uncalled' were a nypothetical example and I mentioned as such. No need correcting it. That's an unnecessary distraction.

 

[Agent47]

No...
Not in a saving Covenant love . If He did they would he saved.
47....think of it this way....was the love of God in the Ark, or outside of it during the destruction of the world of the ungodly?
Is the love of God In Christ, or in Adam?

You're getting it. There's some degree or dimension of love of God totally absent or not exhibited towards the perishing.

And that is what OP is asking. Can the perishing and the saved rightfully claim to be recipients of God's love in equal measure? The answer is no.

 

[Agent47]

So...you are a universalist! [emoji41] [emoji56]

I'm not a universalist.

Why does it give you such immense joy to distract by stereotypes and tags? Is it to make me waste time defending myself instead of focusing on the the weight of your response to the subject question?

 

[Agent47]

We are drawn by the cross of Christ through the preaching of the gospel. John 12:32 Romans 10:17

Therefore everyone single person is drawn of God in an equal manner and has an equal opportunity to choose salvation or reject it. Matthew 19:22

I believe this. But if we are not drawn to God in equal measure as some propagate (general global call vs effectual limited call), those who miss on the effectual call can't possibly say God loves them, especially if God's love is demonstrated by His effectual call