Does God Love the Seed of the Serpent?

[JonC]

No I am not mixing anything, it is quite simple

The seed of the woman is Jesus ultimately;
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

I believe in the Covenant of Redemption , that the elect are totally United to Jesus. He came with us in view. That is the gospel.
The Godly line was preserved by God through many providences. Not so the ungodly.

Psalm 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

6 For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

It seems that you have presented two spiritual "races" of people - the "non-elect" who will not be saved and the "elect" who will be saved. In other words, it seems that your post has at least approached the conclusion of two-seed doctrine in the form of "sheep and goats" theories of lost people. I understand neo-Reformed theology and the idea of two spiritual "races" of lost people, but I do not understand the leap from Genesis they would make. Your posts are an amalgamation of parts of passages put together to somehow support an idea.

No one is denying that the wicked will perish. The issue is applying the Genesis verse to a spiritual "race" of people when the passage is speaking of Christ.

Were you to compare the lost and the saved, then you would have a point. But as it stands you are going back and forward, deconstructing passages and recontextualizing them in a way foreign to Scripture to support your view.

If I am mistaking, then by all means clarify your views (hopefully in one color..i.e., black).

The mixing of Clemson Orange with Alabama Red is off putting....probably blasphemy.

 

[Iconoclast]

It seems that you have presented two spiritual "races" of people - the "non-elect" who will not be saved and the "elect" who will be saved. In other words, it seems that your post has at least approached the conclusion of two-seed doctrine in the form of "sheep and goats" theories of lost people. I understand neo-Reformed theology and the idea of two spiritual "races" of lost people, but I do not understand the leap from Genesis they would make. Your posts are an amalgamation of parts of passages put together to somehow support an idea.

No one is denying that the wicked will perish. The issue is applying the Genesis verse to a spiritual "race" of people when the passage is speaking of Christ.

Were you to compare the lost and the saved, then you would have a point.

If I am mistaking, then by all means clarify your views (hopefully in one color..i.e., black).

The mixing of Clemson Orange with Alabama Red is off putting....probably blasphemy.

I double checked my post with precept austin, and looks like they think similar;
There is a clear allusion here to the merciful (mercy full) promise of God in (Ge 3:15) in which he prophecies the certain triumph of the Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, over our adversary, Satan…

And I will put enmity between you (Satan) and the woman, and between your seed and her seed (Messiah); He (Messiah) shall bruise you (Satan) on the head, and you shall bruise him (Messiah) on the heel." (Genesis 3:15)

This incredible prophecy promised that the Seed of the woman, the Messiah, would totally and forever crush the head of that serpent

And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them before our God day and night. (See notes Revelation 12:9; Revelation 12:10)

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Revelation 20:10) (See notesregarding the fulfillment of this promise in Revelation 20:2; Revelation 20:10).

In the meantime, believers, who also in a sense are the woman's seed (cf note Revelation 12:17), can achieve local victories over Satan and his wiles by resisting him "firm in your faith"

But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world. (see note 1 Peter 5:9).

If we resist him with Scripture as Jesus did, testing and refuting his enticements therewith (Mt 4:4,7,10), then he will "flee from you" (James 4:7), just as he did from Jesus… "until an opportune time." (Luke 4:13).

Soon is the phrase en tachei (5034) meaning speedily or quickly, as in (Acts 12:7, Acts 22:18).

En tachei often carried the secondary connotation of an event that occurs unexpectedly.

The closely related adverb tachu (5035) is used three times in Revelation in relation to Christ’s “coming quickly” (Re 22:7; Re 22:12; Re 22:20-see notes Re 22:7; 12; 20).

We know from the NT itself that Satan was not "soon" crushed from the perspective of believers living at that time and He is still not yet subdued in our day, but "soon and very soon" he will be because as A. T. Robertsonsays it is reckoned

as God counts time. Meanwhile, patient loyalty from us.

John agrees with Paul's verdict on Satan writing that…

the devil who deceived them (those who tried to come again the "holy city" of Jerusalem at the end of Messiah's 1000 year reign on earth) was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (now that is "crushing"!) (Rev 20:10-note) (Bolding added)

 

[JonC]

I double checked my post with precept austin, and looks like they think similar;
There is a clear allusion here to the merciful (mercy full) promise of God in (Ge 3:15) in which he prophecies the certain triumph of the Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, over our adversary, Satan…

And I will put enmity between you (Satan) and the woman, and between your seed and her seed (Messiah); He (Messiah) shall bruise you (Satan) on the head, and you shall bruise him (Messiah) on the heel." (Genesis 3:15)

This incredible prophecy promised that the Seed of the woman, the Messiah, would totally and forever crush the head of that serpent

And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them before our God day and night. (See notes Revelation 12:9; Revelation 12:10)

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Revelation 20:10) (See notesregarding the fulfillment of this promise in Revelation 20:2; Revelation 20:10).

In the meantime, believers, who also in a sense are the woman's seed (cf note Revelation 12:17), can achieve local victories over Satan and his wiles by resisting him "firm in your faith"

But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world. (see note 1 Peter 5:9).

If we resist him with Scripture as Jesus did, testing and refuting his enticements therewith (Mt 4:4,7,10), then he will "flee from you" (James 4:7), just as he did from Jesus… "until an opportune time." (Luke 4:13).

Soon is the phrase en tachei (5034) meaning speedily or quickly, as in (Acts 12:7, Acts 22:18).

En tachei often carried the secondary connotation of an event that occurs unexpectedly.

The closely related adverb tachu (5035) is used three times in Revelation in relation to Christ’s “coming quickly” (Re 22:7; Re 22:12; Re 22:20-see notes Re 22:7; 12; 20).

We know from the NT itself that Satan was not "soon" crushed from the perspective of believers living at that time and He is still not yet subdued in our day, but "soon and very soon" he will be because as A. T. Robertsonsays it is reckoned

as God counts time. Meanwhile, patient loyalty from us.

John agrees with Paul's verdict on Satan writing that…

the devil who deceived them (those who tried to come again the "holy city" of Jerusalem at the end of Messiah's 1000 year reign on earth) was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (now that is "crushing"!) (Rev 20:10-note) (Bolding added)

You are correct that the woman's seed is the Messiah. This cannot be extended to Christians because the "crushing" prophesies a victory which has been won. Christ has gained the victory, the powers of Satain has been overcome, and we are freed from the bonds of sin and death.

While this has future implications, the prophsey was fulfilled at the cross. It is finished. The Lamb HAS overcome. Victory is won.

We have to take our theology from Scripture. The error of the OP is common. It is very tempting to look back to Scripture to find support for our theology where it does not exist. When we do this not only do we place our theological ideas on sandy ground but we corrupt the actual purpose of the text we re-contextualize.

 

[Iconoclast]

The OP is not in error at all.
The theology comes directly from scripture.Romans 16:19-20 demonstrates this, and it is applied to the church as the body of Christ as the gospel spreads in real time.
Satan is a defeated foe,at the Cross, and we are united to the Captain of our salvation in bringing the victory worldwide....Hebrews 2 :4-16.
Those who cannot follow redemptive History and the Covenant work of God on behalf of His children, might get caught up in these other errors that have been mentioned in opposition to the OP.
The cure is to obey Romans 16:19, to enjoy the results spoken of in rom16:20

 

[kyredneck]

You are correct that the woman's seed is the Messiah. This cannot be extended to Christians

???

17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus: Rev 12

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. Gal 4

3 Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah
4 I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon as among them that know me: Behold, Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia: This one was born there.
5 Yea, of Zion it shall be said, This one and that one was born in her; And the Most High himself will establish her.
6 Jehovah will count, when he writeth up the peoples, This one was born there. Selah Ps 87

7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.` Jn 3 YLT

 

[JonC]

???

17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus: Rev 12

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. Gal 4

3 Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah
4 I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon as among them that know me: Behold, Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia: This one was born there.
5 Yea, of Zion it shall be said, This one and that one was born in her; And the Most High himself will establish her.
6 Jehovah will count, when he writeth up the peoples, This one was born there. Selah Ps 87

7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.` Jn 3 YLT

Yes, everyone who HAS BEEN BORN OF THE SPIRIT. That is correct.

 

[JonC]

The OP is not in error at all.
The theology comes directly from scripture.Romans 16:19-20 demonstrates this, and it is applied to the church as the body of Christ as the gospel spreads in real time.
Satan is a defeated foe,at the Cross, and we are united to the Captain of our salvation in bringing the victory worldwide....Hebrews 2 :4-16.
Those who cannot follow redemptive History and the Covenant work of God on behalf of His children, might get caught up in these other errors that have been mentioned in opposition to the OP.
The cure is to obey Romans 16:19, to enjoy the results spoken of in rom16:20

Unfortunately it is erroneous due to it's treatment of the passage in Genesis which was pure eisegesis.

Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.

 

[Iconoclast]

Let's get back to the eisegesis of Jonathan Edwards:...section1 from the fall to the flood;
I repeat to get back on topic:

I. The flood itself was a work of God that belonged to this great affair, and tended to promote it. All the mighty works of God from the fall of man to the end of the world, are reducible to this work; and if seen in a right view, will appear as parts of it; and so many steps for carrying it on; and doubtless so great a work, so remarkable and universal a catastrophe, as the deluge was, cannot be excepted. Thereby God removed out of the way the enemies and obstacles that were ready to overthrow it.

Satan seems to have been in a dreadful rage just before the flood, and his rage then doubtless was, as it always has been, chiefly against the church of God to overthrow it; and he had filled the earth with violence and rage against it. He had drawn over almost all the world to be on his side, and they listed under his banner against Christ and his church. We read, that the earth was filled with violence; and doubtless that violence was chiefly against the church,
in fulfilment of what was foretold, I will put enmity between thy seed and her seed.

Their enmity and violence was so great, and the enemies of the church so numerous, the whole world being against it, that it was come to the last extremity. Noah’s reproofs, and his preaching of righteousness, were utterly disregarded. God’s Spirit had striven with them a hundred and twenty years, but all in vain; and the church was reduced to so narrow limits, as to be confined to one family. There was no prospect of any thing else but of their totally swallowing up the church, and that in a very little time; and so wholly destroying that small root that had the blessing in it, whence the Redeemer was to proceed.

And therefore, God’s destroying those enemies of the church by the flood belongs to this affair of redemption; for it was one thing that was done in fulfilment of the covenant of grace, as it was revealed to Adam: “I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head.”


This was only a destruction of the seed of the serpent in the midst of their most violent rage against the seed of the woman, when in the utmost peril by them.

 

[Iconoclast]

Romans 16:20 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

Here is some eisegesis from John Gill;
Romans 16:20

And the God of peace (See Gill on Romans 15:33);

shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.
Some read this by way of wish or prayer, "may the God of peace bruise"; so the Vulgate Latin, Syriac, and Ethiopic versions, and the Alexandrian copy; but others as ours, as a promise, or as expressive of the apostle's faith and hope in this matter; and which he mentions to encourage the members of this church to be upon their guard, and make head against these false teachers; since in a little time they might be assured of victory over Satan and these his emissaries: as it is before suggested, that the methods these men used to beguile weak minds were much like those that Satan used when he attacked our first parents, so here is a manifest allusion to what was said by way of threatening to him, "it", the woman's seed, "shall bruise thy head", ( Genesis 3:15 ) ; and which has had its accomplishment in Christ, who has not only destroyed the works of the devil, but him himself, and spoiled his principalities and powers, and bruised him and them under his feet, when he led captivity captive; and though, for the trial of the graces of his people, Satan is permitted to attack them in various shapes, yet in a short time he will be bruised under their feet, as he is already under their Lord and master's.

The apostle refers not so much to his coming among them in a short time, when he might hope and believe that he should be an instrument of crushing these men Satan made use of, of quelling the contentions they raised, and putting a stop to the divisions they made, and under the influence, and by the assistance of the God of peace, restore them to their former peace and tranquillity, though it is a sense not to be despised; much less does he refer to the destruction of Jerusalem, which was to be in a very short time, when the crucifiers of Christ and the persecutors of the saints would have the wrath of God come upon them to the uttermost, since these Romans had no great and immediate concern with them; nor does he regard the spread of the Gospel in the Gentile world, whereby Satan fell as lightning from heaven, and was cast out of the idol temples, for this was greatly fulfilled already: but rather he refers to the time of Constantine, when Satan's seat at Rome was overturned, when he was cast down from his throne and trampled under feet, who had deceived the whole world, the whole Roman empire, when the Gospel triumphed over its secret and open enemies, profane persecutors, and perfidious teachers, over idolatry and superstition on the one hand, and error and heresy on the other, though this did not last long; wherefore some have thought the apostle refers to the latter day, when Satan shall be bound a thousand years, or to the last of all, when he shall be for ever under the feet of the saints, and never be able to give them any more trouble; and this the apostle might say would be shortly, since the second coming of Christ was expected to be quickly: yea, this may be applied to the case of every believer now, and be for his encouragement to be vigilant and on his guard against Satan, to resist him, repel his temptations, and oppose his emissaries; since he may assure himself he shall be more than a conqueror over him through Christ, that has loved him, and that in a very little time, when death comes, and he shall enter into the joy of his Lord, where he will be out of the reach of Satan, and unmolested by him.

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you, Amen:
to enable you to abide by the truth; to mark and avoid the authors of sects, and causes of divisions, and offences; to oppose error and defend truth; to keep from falling, to stand against every assault of Satan, and to bear up under every temptation of his; to get the victory over him, and to preserve them safe to the kingdom and glory of Christ.

 

[kyredneck]

Yes, everyone who HAS BEEN BORN OF THE SPIRIT. That is correct.

Nice dodge. You wrote:

You are correct that the woman's seed is the Messiah. This cannot be extended to Christians

I brought to your attention:

17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus: Rev 12

What hinders you from connecting the dots? Either you're slave to your tradition or you're not brite enough to see it. I know it's not the latter, you're not dense by any means.

 

[Iconoclast]

Romans 16:20 - The God of peace... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary

Here is Robert Haldane:
The Apostle here encourages the believers to sustain the combat against Satan, their mortal enemy, who does everything in his power to disturb their peace, and to tempt them to all evil. There were two victories to be obtained over Satan. By the first, his head was to be bruised under the feet of Jesus Christ; and by the second, the rest of his body will be bruised under the feet of the believers. Of the second of these victories, Paul here speaks. In the first prediction, God speaks as the Lord of Hosts, the God of war — ’I will put enmity.’ The war continues till the bruising of Satan’s head has taken place, and his empire is overthrown; and when it is subverted, peace is made, and God is the God of peace . As, then, the seed of the woman has bruised the head of the serpent, so His people will through Christ likewise bruise Satan. The Apostle says not we shall bruise him under our feet, but God shall do it; yet he says not He shall bruise him under His own feet, but under yours. The victory shall be ours, though wrought by Him; and He shall do it shortly. The God of peace shall subdue that grand disturber of our peace, and shall give us perfect victory, and after it endless peace; He shall free us of this trouble and molestation.

It is not, then, in our own power that we must encounter this adversary; it is God who bruises him under our feet. ‘We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places;’ and it is only when covered with the armor of God and by His power that we can overcome enemies so formidable. Dr. Macknight says of the word Satan, that ‘Here it is given to the unbelieving Jews, and also to the Judaizing teachers and their adherents, who, for selfish purposes, bred divisions at Rome, ver. 17, and in every church where they could obtain a footing; they are therefore called ministers of Satan’ 2 Corinthians 11:15, etc. But it is of Satan himself that the Apostle speaks. Though Satan works by his instruments are crushed, he is crushed. Paul wrote this Epistle, and Tertius wrote it, — the one as dictating, the other as amanuensis. But when Paul is said to write the Epistle, we are not to say that Paul means Tertius. Satan works personally in disturbing the churches, though his work is carried on through the instrumentality of men. He excites his emissaries and suggests his devices to them, and they are successful through his artifices.

Shortly. — Some understand this of the final victory that all the Lord’s people will obtain at last over Satan and all his emissaries. But though they will not be free from the attacks of this subtle adversary as long as they are in the body, yet from the phrase ‘speedily,’ or ‘shortly,’ no well as from the immediate reference to the power of God in the Church,

it appears rather to refer to a present victory. The meaning, then, is, that all the churches of Christ are to be hurt by factious people rising up among them, emissaries of Satan, under the cover of religion; and if the Church is not led away by the error of Satan, God, as the God of peace, will shortly deliver them from the malignant influence of this apostate spirit. Satan will not be permitted to harass them continually. It is consistent with God’s wisdom to permit Satan to try His people; but when they are sufficiently tried, they are delivered from the temptation. So it was with the Son of God Himself. Satan was for a time permitted to harass Him, but at last he was dismissed. In like manner, churches and individual Christians are all to be tried in various ways; but if they abide the trial, they shall be delivered from the temptation, and, in the most emphatic and extensive sense, they shall all at last bruise Satan under their feet. They shall obtain a complete victory over him in the day of the appearing of their almighty Lord, who will then finally consign him to his awful punishment, and cast him into the lake of fire and brimstone. On that day the full import of this expression will be seen.

 

[JonC]

Nice dodge. You wrote:



I brought to your attention:

17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus: Rev 12

What hinders you from connecting the dots? Either you're slave to your tradition or you're not brite enough to see it. I know it's not the latter, you're not dense by any means.

It was not a dodge. My point is not that those who are "in Christ" are not 'of Christ".

My point is the seed of the woman in Genesis is NOT referring to unsaved sheep. Even in the passage you provide the "rest of her seed" refer to the faithful in Christ.

There is absolutely no justification for @Iconoclast 's eisegesis. We cannot "connect the dots" by taking passages dealing with those "in Christ" and applying them to yet saved elect people in order to "prove" two races of unsaved men.

Think of it this way - Scripture looks to and through the Cross. Jesus is the Firstborn of many brethren. The logical conclusion of the doctrine of the OP renders the Cross meaningless as it tramples the blood in favor of its theology.

There are two spiritual races - those "in Christ" and those not.

 

[kyredneck]

My point is

My point is that the woman of Gen 3:15 is revealed in Rev 12 and that her 'seed' does indeed include ALL God's children, not just the Messiah as you claim.

 

[Iconoclast]

It was not a dodge. My point is not that those who are "in Christ" are not 'of Christ".

My point is the seed of the woman in Genesis is NOT referring to unsaved sheep. Even in the passage you provide the "rest of her seed" refer to the faithful in Christ.

There is absolutely no justification for @Iconoclast 's eisegesis. We cannot "connect the dots" by taking passages dealing with those "in Christ" and applying them to yet saved elect people in order to "prove" two races of unsaved men.

Think of it this way - Scripture looks to and through the Cross. Jesus is the Firstborn of many brethren. The logical conclusion of the doctrine of the OP renders the Cross meaningless as it tramples the blood in favor of its theology.

There are two spiritual races - those "in Christ" and those not.

Your post makes no sense, but you are welcome to it.
If you understood Union with Christ properly it would not be an issue.
The verses offered so far show it plainly.
Jonathan Edwards and most all reformed persons have understood it this way more or less.
Your idea and agenda with the perverted two seed teaching has nothing to do with the biblical Revelation.
I always like the posters here who think they alone have such a" unique take" on every doctrine as if no one else has looked at a bible.
They insist that the whole confessing church is in error, but somehow they have it right.
The understanding is so unique that NNE IN CHURCH HISTORY has seen what they see.
then when you try to focus in, they dance away from the teaching with a change of wording here, some philosophy over there.
Kyred saw it plainly ,as did Martin Marprelate.in post 27;
Since @Iconoclast has repudiated 'serpent seed doctrine' and denied that the thread has anything to do with it, don't you think you should either take him at his word or provide proper exegesis to show him his error?
To claim guilt by distant association without providing proof, and then to insinuate heresy is not a very pleasant way of conducting a debate.

 

[JonC]

My point is that the woman of Gen 3:15 is revealed in Rev 12 and that her 'seed' does indeed include ALL God's children, not just the Messiah as you claim.

Yes. We agree there. To those who believe God has given the right to be called children of God.

My claim was meant in the context of the OP (I think we may have crossed wires in the process).

The criteria is being found "in Christ". This is the difference. Those who are not in Christ (the world) are under the dominion of Satan. Those who are "in Christ" are reborn and freed from that bondage.

The passage in Genesis looks to the Messiah. The "crushing" of the serpent's head points to the cross.

The danger here is where @Iconoclast takes those things by decontextualizing the passage (and the "woman's seed" in both passages) and reconstuucting it within a neo-orthodox (a hyper-Calvinistic) format that focuses on those not "in Christ" (unsaved elect and non-elect).

It is an excellent example of eisegesis- reading theology into the text.

 

[JonC]

Your post makes no sense, but you are welcome to it.
If you understood Union with Christ properly it would not be an issue.
The verses offered so far show it plainly.
Jonathan Edwards and most all reformed persons have understood it this way more or less.
Your idea and agenda with the perverted two seed teaching has nothing to do with the biblical Revelation.
I always like the posters here who think they alone have such a" unique take" on every doctrine as if no one else has looked at a bible.
They insist that the whole confessing church is in error, but somehow they have it right.
The understanding is so unique that NNE IN CHURCH HISTORY has seen what they see.
then when you try to focus in, they dance away from the teaching with a change of wording here, some philosophy over there.
Kyred saw it plainly ,as did Martin Marprelate.in post 27;
Since @Iconoclast has repudiated 'serpent seed doctrine' and denied that the thread has anything to do with it, don't you think you should either take him at his word or provide proper exegesis to show him his error?
To claim guilt by distant association without providing proof, and then to insinuate heresy is not a very pleasant way of conducting a debate.

The issue is not "serpent seed doctrine". As you well know we have both agreed that you do not hold that view.

I suspect you are ignoring that fact because you realize the truth of my question. Except for the physical relation superstition, how does the OP differ? IT DOESN'T! It is the same doctrine arrived at differently. The heresy of Serpent Seed doctrine is not the superstition of the Serpent mating with Eve...although that is a heresy (that is a type of ancient Jewish superstition) but the conclusion to which it arrives.

I think you would do better to return to a more mainstream faith. This has been my concern for the topic. It is like the illustration of boiling a frog. I do not believe you realize have far you have drifted from where you were just 5 years ago.

I am not sure if your comment about new ideas is supposed to be some sort of insult towards my view (which is a historic position)....if so then it only shows a degree of ignorance about non-Reformed views. Even among the Reformed the notion of two unsaved spiritual races is typically linked to Hyper-Calvinism.

 

[Iconoclast]

Edwards continued:

I do not agree with this point as expressed but I think he is giving a hypothetical example to try and remove objections. I do not believe God could have done anything differently

By means of this flood, all the enemies of God’s church, against whom that little handful had no strength, were swept off at once. God took their part, appeared for them against their enemies, and drowned those of whom they had been afraid, in the flood of water, as he drowned the enemies of Israel that pursued them in the Red sea.

Indeed God could have taken other methods to deliver his church: he could have converted all the world instead of drowning it; and so he could have taken another method than drowning the Egyptians in the Red sea. But that is no argument, that the method he did take, was not a method to show his redeeming mercy to them.

 

[kyredneck]

My claim was

...quite clear:

the woman's seed is the Messiah. This cannot be extended to Christians

...and the scripture is quite clear:

17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus: Rev 12

Admit it. You were wrong. It'll do you a wonder of good and you'll feel soooo much better afterwards...

 

[JonC]

Edwards continued:

I do not agree with this point as expressed but I think he is giving a hypothetical example to try and remove objections. I do not believe God could have done anything differently

I agree with Edwards. What part do you find wrong?

 

[JonC]

...quite clear:



...and the scripture is quite clear:

17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus: Rev 12

Admit it. You were wrong. It'll do you a wonder of good and you'll feel soooo much better afterwards...

....nope.

I do not see how "the rest of her seed" refers to the unsaved but chosen. The verse itself even says these are obedient to God.