Does God Ordain Everything That Takes Place?

[SavedByGrace]

You post two ULTRA "Calvinists"! WHAT do you expect them to say? Both are noted for their waffling!

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning -
This thread will be closed no sooner than 1045 pm EST / 745 pm PST

 

[Iconoclast]

"Silverhair,
Good post in that you offered clearly what you were taught.
.

You have just removed any ability or choice from Judas.

All people choose.
We do not remove the ability to choose.
Sin nature limits our choice.
The will is not free....there is no such thing.
Judas wanted silver, not Jesus.

Now you will say that Judas had exercised his free will to sin, but is that really free will when you have no choice.

Again you have a choice.You have self will, that is not free from sin.

 

[Iconoclast]

You post two ULTRA "Calvinists"! WHAT do you expect them to say? Both are noted for their waffling!

You cannot touch anything they teach,lol

 

[agedman]

@SavedByGrace

Eve was tricked.

Adam took knowing full well he was rebellious.

Humankind has been in a state of rebellion from that moment.

Do not the Scriptures state that “Rebellion is bound in the heart if a child,” and yet God provides for the Just and unjust?

You may not realize that your posts reflect a question by the pot concerning why it was made a pot? The Pot Maker has no desire to give an answer,and does not.

The Creation is God’s business, and how it all worked out is to His glory.

Quit making a lesser god, and trust the Sovereign is always aware and in control.

This thread was supposed to be about God ordaining work.

Are some so little aware that all things not only exist, but are kept in existence by His authority?

What then may occur that God does not allow and therefore ordain it to work for all believer’s betterment?

 

[Mikey]

You post two ULTRA "Calvinists"! WHAT do you expect them to say? Both are noted for their waffling!

From you? really little actually. For you have failed to engage with anything i have posted.

Again you haven't answered my question.

Did God know that Adam and Eve would sin? Yes
Did God have the power to prevent Adam and Eve from Sinning? Yes
Did God stop Adam and Eve from Sinning? No

So God decided to create the world knowing that Adam and Eve would sin, thus initiating the Fall.
So was the Fall part of God's plan? Yes.

But maybe, since you are unable to address anything that I have posted, thus assumes you and your theology is unable to do so, perhaps you would truely listen to what they had to say. But instead you put your fingers in your ears again, laughing and mocking, unwilling to hear the truth.

 

[SavedByGrace]

You cannot touch anything they teach,lol

As they are both UNBIBLICAL on their views on the Death of Jesus Christ, I have no problem

 

[SavedByGrace]

From you? really little actually. For you have failed to engage with anything i have posted.

Again you haven't answered my question.

Did God know that Adam and Eve would sin? Yes
Did God have the power to prevent Adam and Eve from Sinning? Yes
Did God stop Adam and Eve from Sinning? No

So God decided to create the world knowing that Adam and Eve would sin, thus initiating the Fall.
So was the Fall part of God's plan? Yes.

But maybe, since you are unable to address anything that I have posted, thus assumes you and your theology is unable to do so, perhaps you would truely listen to what they had to say. And, perhaps give a response to their content. But instead you put your fingers in your ears again, laughing and mocking, unwilling to hear the truth.

Dude you reminded me of Sproul and White, both who like to THINK that they know what they are talking about, but in reality they don't

 

[Mikey]

Dude you reminded me of Sproul and White, both who like to THINK that they know what they are talking about, but in reality they don't

So again you are unable to answer my questions. You declare that you hold to God's soverignty, His omniscience and His omnipotence. Yet you repeatedly failed to explain how you are able to hold to these doctrine within you system of thought. Thus, denying them in practice.
But rather than engage my post, you post mockingly. You say they "THINK that they know what they are talking about, but in reality they don't " yet you cannot, have not been able to expain how they are wrong. Sounds like you can't.

 

[SavedByGrace]

So again you are unable to answer my questions. You declare that you hold to God's soverignty, His omniscience and His omnipotence. Yet you repeatedly failed to explain how you are able to hold to these doctrine within you system of thought. Thus, denying them in practice.
But rather than engage my post, you post mockingly. You say they "THINK that they know what they are talking about, but in reality they don't " yet you cannot, have not been able to expain how they are wrong. Sounds like you can't.

Problem is that you are not interested in listening to anything you don't agree with.

Wish you well in all you do

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair
You see @Iconoclast reply to me in post 175. There is some truth in what you are saying. There is a range of opinion when it comes to how meticulous God is in the events of the world. You can judge for yourself the various posts on here and articles you see elsewhere. I think that some Calvinists do go so far in the idea that God determines everything that they indeed make God the author of evil. I think the idea of "two wills" while it may not be a slam dunk, is a viable idea. But you have to realize that the arguments regarding God's sovereignty over various events cannot be applied in the same way to men's salvation because we all believe on here that man, after the Fall has been profoundly changed and everyone from high Calvinists to fundamental Baptist preachers clearly teach that without the action of the Holy Spirit one simply cannot come to Christ. We differ on the specifics but unless you follow a Pelagian belief system we believe we are not as free as Adam to not sin or go to God.

Are There Two Wills in God?

God in His sovereignty has allowed for man to have a free will so that we can make real choices. We also see that God has not left us without information about Himself. We have creation we have the gospel message etc. It is not that man can not make a choice to trust in Christ Jesus it is that for some they will not make that choice.

Where the problem comes in as I see it is that under the Calvinist TULIP man does not have any responsibility to make that choice, in fact he cannot.

Just look at the three middle terms ULI
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Calvinist theology has made the good faith offer of salvation moot. If, according to Calvinism, you are not part of this select group then you are doomed for the start. And on top of that God has even decreed just the way you will act out your sinful life and then condemns you for it.

Calvinism attacks the character of God and then claims they are be biblical. Sorry that does not work for me, I will just stick with the bible and not some logic challenged view.

 

[Mikey]

If you unable or unwilling answer to answer the below statements (which i have posted multiple times without a response) then everyone will see that you are all talk without substance.

Did God know that Adam and Eve would sin? Yes
Did God have the power to prevent Adam and Eve from Sinning? Yes
Did God stop Adam and Eve from Sinning? No

So God decided to create the world knowing that Adam and Eve would sin, thus initiating the Fall.
So was the Fall part of God's plan? Yes.

 

[Silverhair]

Nope
Humans are, by nature, sinful beings. When Adam and Eve were about to sin, God made the decision to allow it to happen. His order was to allow evil to take root in Adam and Eve. It was not an order to cause it. Sin was already lurking. God ordered the allowance of sin to attack and defeat Adam and Eve.

This whole notion of God causing, when He ordains is just your own foolishness and ignorance speaking.

But, who am I to keep you from stomping around and pouting. Have at it if you must.

So your saying that when God ordains something it is really just a suggestion?

 

[AustinC]

So your saying that when God ordains something it is really just a suggestion?

Nope, and you know better. You are a twister of all things you disagree with. Since you love open theism, you will struggle with God's Supremacy over all things.
Go ahead, try twisting something else.

 

[Silverhair]

"Sin was already lurking. God ordered the allowance of sin to attack and defeat Adam and Eve."

This is EXACTLY right!

So your saying that when God made Adam in His image there was sin already lurking in him? Not what the bible says.

Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image,...
Gen 1:27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

And we are told that what God made was not just good but it was very good.
Gen 1:31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good.

Perhaps you need a rethink on your view?

 

[AustinC]

So your saying that when God made Adam in His image there was sin already lurking in him? Not what the bible says.

Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image,...
Gen 1:27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

And we are told that what God made was not just good but it was very good.
Gen 1:31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good.

Perhaps you need a rethink on your view?

Nope, not what agedman said. Anymore twisting you want to try? Keep it coming. You're good at twisting.

 

[Silverhair]

You're putting your ignorance on display

Are you saying that you do not even know what the WCF or LBCF say. Your the one that keeps trumpeting how good Calvinism is and yet you do not even understand it.

 

[timtofly]

Sin is ordained to take place.the execution of Jesus was ordained to take place.

Not the same thing. Sin was not ordained.

 

[Silverhair]

Nope, not what agedman said. Anymore twisting you want to try? Keep it coming. You're good at twisting.

You deny clear text and you say I am twisting text. Austin you have to learn how to read.

 

[AustinC]

You deny clear text and you say I am twisting text. Austin you have to learn how to read.

Nope, keep twisting. Your open theism is keeping you from embracing the Supremacy of God.