Featured Does God Ordain Our Sins?

Yea right. Sure you did Arch


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

Are you suggesting that I’m lying about my education?

The Archangel


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Just foolish jesting. I appreciate your dedication to the word my friend.


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

Thank you... and thanks for the clarification.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

The Westminster divines knew they had entered into contradictory territory. That's why they included the part about "yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established." Somebody's will must be offered violence.

Here are the 2 options:
1. God ordained what He already knew was going to happen. This is the Arminian position.
2. God ordained what He wanted to happen. This is the Calvinist position.

#1 is untenable. If God knows something is going to happen because it is determined outside of himself, then the source outside himself is an agent in the determining. But if that agent does not yet exist, then something outside that agent is the real agent. If God knows everything everybody is going to do before they exist, then
A. No human has any control over what he's going to do in life (because it's already set in stone before he exists).
B. God has no control over what any human is going to do in life (because it is set in stone by someone besides Him, and He can't change it).
That only leaves an additional agent that is more powerful than God. Like the Fates of Greek mythology, which means means God is not really God.

What about #2? This IS tenable. If God decides to control all things from the beginning, before anyone else exists, that is up to Him. But it makes God the author of sin, because no one else is involved in the decision--no one else exists to be involved. So #2 is tenable, but it is unacceptable due to God's revelation of His character in His word.

If, therefore, #1 (Arminianism) is untenable and #2 (Calvinism) is unacceptable, what options are left.

There's only one option remaining. God does not know everything every person is going to do throughout time.

Open theism is both tenable and acceptable according to God's word.

This part of the Westminster Confession has serious contradictions, and it should not be used.

 

Thanks for your solid and biblically grounded posts which clarify the waters a bit.

 

Matthew 12

22Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed him, so that the mute man spoke and saw. 23All the crowds were amazed, and were saying, “This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?” 24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons.”

25And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26“If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? 27“If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges. 28“But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29“Or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.



So they claim any "good" Jesus does is just actually evil and has the devil for source. You still hear same line of argument today. If a Muslim or Atheist save's your child's life its chalked up as based on evil intentions. Bigotry cannot allow for another faith to do the right thing.

The case here the pharisees challenged Jesus can't do a Good act before God since he wasn't chosen/elect as the pharisees, sounds familiar?

To say God ordains evil is to say God's own kingdom is divided against itself and laid waste.