Does God react, relent or change in response to man?

[Skandelon]

These passages seem to indicate that he does, and not one of them gives any type of qualification or explanation which would lead its readers to believe that God would not respond or react to his people. Why do we allow our doctrinal constructs keep us from relating to God as a real person who reacts and responds to us through life? Could our complex dogmas, and divine speculations keep us from relating with God in the way He intends?

Jeremiah 18:7-10:
"If at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, and if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I intended to do to it. And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it."

Gen 6:5
The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. 6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.

Amos 7:4
This is what the Lord GOD showed me: behold, the Lord GOD was calling for a judgment by fire, and it devoured the great deep and was eating up the land. 5 Then I said, "O Lord GOD, please cease! How can Jacob stand? He is so small!" 6 The LORD relented concerning this: "This also shall not be," said the Lord GOD.

Ex. 32:11
But Moses implored the LORD his God and said, "O LORD, why does your wrath burn hot against your people, whom you have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians say, 'With evil intent did he bring them out, to kill them in the mountains and to consume them from the face of the earth'? Turn from your burning anger and relent from this disaster against your people. 13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, your servants, to whom you swore by your own self, and said to them, 'I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have promised I will give to your offspring, and they shall inherit it forever.'" 14 And the LORDrelented from the disaster that he had spoken of bringing on his people.

Ps. 106:23
Therefore he said he would destroy them-- had not Moses, his chosen one, stood in the breach before him, to turn away his wrath from destroying them.

Luke 11:9
And I say to you, Make requests, and they will be answered; what you are searching for, you will get; when you give the sign, the door will be open to you. 10 For to everyone who makes a request, it will be given; and he who is searching will get his desire; and to him who gives the sign, the door will be open. 11 And which of you, being a father, will give a stone to his son, who makes request for bread? or for a fish, will give him a snake? 12 Or for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If, then, you who are evil are able to give good things to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who make request to him?

 

[freeatlast]

There is no question that the workings of God are marvelous to see and to try and understand. When we limit ourselves with narrow understandings about God we limit the God we say we understand thus falling short of truly knowing Him as He has given revelation of Himself.
Hyper this and hyper that does not do credit to the God we serve when they are not also balanced with the patients of God and the volition of man.
So to your question the answer is yes He does, but none of those things alters the ultimate outcome of His plan.

 

[Robert Snow]

Yes, God has chosen, of His own free will, to respond to some of our responses. He didn't have to do it this way, God could be the tyrant some DoG's would have us believe, but He didn't do it that way. Just look at Jonah and Nineveh.

 

[quantumfaith]

There is no question that the workings of God are marvelous to see and to try and understand. When we limit ourselves with narrow understandings about God we limit the God we say we understand thus falling short of truly knowing Him as He has given revelation of Himself.
Hyper this and hyper that does not do credit to the God we serve when they are not also balanced with the patients of God and the volition of man.
So to your question the answer is yes He does, but none of those things alters the ultimate outcome of His plan.

Exactly!!!! Great point. However, I think we all would add that He is certainly "not surprsed" by any path or decision that his creation takes among the possibilities that he has offered.

 

[Cypress]

" Could our complex dogmas, and divine speculations keep us from relating with God in the way He intends?"

I have come to see that they do, and am seeking to avoid these failures as they are revealed. Better to relate to God as He reveals Himself than going with assumptions contrary to experience. For example, retreating to the omni doctrines can be flawed because they tend to have God fitting what we think omni anything means.
Avoiding these dogmas and speculations has allowed me to help my teenage to young adult children keep a robust and abiding faith in God in a tough environment. It is a wonderful testament to God when they are the ones their peers go to for answers to life's tough questions. In simple terms.......it's where the rubber meets the road that counts. God is good! And that ain't no assumption.:thumbs:

 

[quantumfaith]

" Could our complex dogmas, and divine speculations keep us from relating with God in the way He intends?"

I have come to see that they do, and am seeking to avoid these failures as they are revealed. Better to relate to God as He reveals Himself than going with assumptions contrary to experience. For example, retreating to the omni doctrines can be flawed because they tend to have God fitting what we think omni anything means.
Avoiding these dogmas and speculations has allowed me to help my teenage to young adult children keep a robust and abiding faith in God in a tough environment. It is a wonderful testament to God when they are the ones their peers go to for answers to life's tough questions. In simple terms.......it's where the rubber meets the road that counts. God is good! And that ain't no assumption.:thumbs:

:thumbs::thumbs:

I hope some one is counting.

 

[Iconoclast]

The God of the bible does not.

Chapter 3: Of God's Decree
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )
2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.
( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )

3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

4.______These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.
( 2 Timothy 2:19; John 13:18 )

5._____ Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto.
( Ephesians 1:4, 9, 11; Romans 8:30; 2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 9:13, 16; Ephesians 2:5, 12 )

6._____ As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so he hath, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means thereunto; wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ, by his Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by his power through faith unto salvation; neither are any other redeemed by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.
( 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 5:9, 10; Romans 8:30; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:5; John 10:26; John 17:9; John 6:64 )

7._____ The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election; so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.
( 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 5; 2 Peter 1:10; Ephesians 1:6; Romans 11:33; Romans 11:5, 6, 20; Luke 10:20 )


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[Skandelon]

Iconoclast, whether you realize it or not by cutting and pasting this creed you are only supporting the point I was attempting to make.

None of these statements or verses undo the verses I presented, they simply reveal MORE of God. By suggesting that one part of His revelation somehow undoes another part presumes an element of paradox and mystery is not intended. And it could keep us from relating to God in the way Moses and some others clearly did.

 

[jbh28]

Does God react, relent or change in response to man?

No

 

[Winman]

Iconoclast, whether you realize it or not by cutting and pasting this creed you are only supporting the point I was attempting to make.

None of these statements or verses undo the verses I presented, they simply reveal MORE of God. By suggesting that one part of His revelation somehow undoes another part presumes an element of paradox and mystery is not intended. And it could keep us from relating to God in the way Moses and some others clearly did.

That creed is a direct contradiction and cannot be true.

1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )

You cannot say that God decreed ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER COMES TO PASS, and say he is not the author of sin, that is a contradiction.

It is clear that God answers prayer, so yes, God does react to men.

 

[Skandelon]

That creed is a direct contradiction and cannot be true.

I actually meant to just refer to the scripture references in the creed, not the conclusions they draw from those verses. Thanks for clarifying

 

[jbh28]

You cannot say that God decreed ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER COMES TO PASS, and say he is not the author of sin, that is a contradiction.

No it's not.

It is clear that God answers prayer, so yes, God does react to men.

So God is not immutable?

 

[Winman]

No it's not.

Of course it is a contradiction, and denying it does not change that fact.

So God is not immutable?

What does God answering prayer have to do with being immutable? He answered prayer in the past, he answers it today, he will answer it in the future.

You guys portray God like he is made of stone, as if he is not a person.

 

[Skandelon]

So God is not immutable?

If you affirm that Christ was fully God and you also affirm that Christ interacted and reacted to man, not fully knowing the future of the end times, and choosing to enter into time, space and the material world, then why couldn't you also affirm the ability of God himself doing so if He so desired?

 

[jbh28]

Of course it is a contradiction, and denying it does not change that fact.

No, you not understanding it(and neither do I) doesn't make it a contradiction. Only I would say that God ordained all things to come to pass.

What does God answering prayer have to do with being immutable? He answered prayer in the past, he answers it today, he will answer it in the future.

well, you are saying that God reacts to something we do. It means he is changing something. God answering prayer isn't reacting or changing unless you are using a different definition of reacting.

You guys portray God like he is made of stone, as if he is not a person.

We have to remember that God is spirit and not a person just like us. God doesn't change. We change. We see places where God "repented" but do you really thing God changed his mind? Did he really have all intentions to do one thing and decided to do another? this is where omniscience come into play. In our eyes, God is repenting. This is how he expresses it to us. But to Him, He was planning to do that all along.

 

[jbh28]

If you affirm that Christ was fully God and you also affirm that Christ interacted and reacted to man, not fully knowing the future of the end times, and choosing to enter into time, space and the material world, then why couldn't you also affirm the ability of God himself doing so if He so desired?

You're talking about Jesus Christ as human. I'm not denying the ability of God doing something. What I'm saying is that God doesn't change for man. He is the same. He isn't dependent on man. He doesn't change because of man.

 

[Skandelon]

You're talking about Jesus Christ as human. I'm not denying the ability of God doing something. What I'm saying is that God doesn't change for man. He is the same. He isn't dependent on man. He doesn't change because of man.

Then how do you reply to the clear implications of the passages presented in the OP?

 

[Alcott]

What I'm saying is that God doesn't change for man. He is the same. He isn't dependent on man. He doesn't change because of man.

How is it he "repented" of his plan to destroy Ninevah Jonah preached to the people there and they changed their ways?

 

[jbh28]

How is it he "repented" of his plan to destroy Ninevah Jonah preached to the people there and they changed their ways?

Answered in previous post...

We have to remember that God is spirit and not a person just like us. God doesn't change. We change. We see places where God "repented" but do you really thing God changed his mind? Did he really have all intentions to do one thing and decided to do another? this is where omniscience come into play. In our eyes, God is repenting. This is how he expresses it to us. But to Him, He was planning to do that all along.

 

[jbh28]

Then how do you reply to the clear implications of the passages presented in the OP?

here........

We have to remember that God is spirit and not a person just like us. God doesn't change. We change. We see places where God "repented" but do you really thing God changed his mind? Did he really have all intentions to do one thing and decided to do another? this is where omniscience come into play. In our eyes, God is repenting. This is how he expresses it to us. But to Him, He was planning to do that all along.