Does it honor God to break the Sabbath memorial of creation?

[saturneptune]

In the dark ages the Catholic church thought that would be the right way to avoid sola scriiptura discussions as well.

It is not the first time that solution has been suggested - simiply "dismantle" whatever group is bringing up a Bible text that you don't want to deal with and thus avoid having to deal with the actual Bible texts in the thread.

Not at all a "new idea'.

But not everyone here will go for that thinking.

I think we all know that.

in Christ,

Bob

Since you have no Scriptural support for your entire cult, it makes no difference if it is or is not a new idea. "I think we all know that." No clue as to what that refers to, but it seems you are more interested in worshiping Saturday than Christ. So what was Christ doing on Saturday after the crucifixion? Was He being raised from the dead, our eternal hope? Or is our hope only temporarily eternal? Is going to church on Sundays one of those triggers that causes a loss of salvation? Will two Saturdays make up for it? Or is it three to one?

 

[BobRyan]

Speaking of the dark ages practice of calling someone a "heretic" and settling for 'name calling" to avoid sola scriptura evidence from the Bible I said ..

Originally Posted by BobRyan
In the dark ages the Catholic church thought that would be the right way to avoid sola scriiptura discussions as well.

It is not the first time that solution has been suggested - simiply "dismantle" whatever group is bringing up a Bible text that you don't want to deal with and thus avoid having to deal with the actual Bible texts in the thread.

Not at all a "new idea'.

But not everyone here will go for that thinking.

I think we all know that.

Since you have no Scriptural support for your entire cult, it makes no difference if it is or is not a new idea.

As I said - acrimony, vitriol name calling are a poor substitute for sola scriptura Bible study.

You continue to avoid the Bible texts I highlight and circle back to an all-name-calling solution.

It was tried in the dark ages - it did not stop the Protestant reformation.

Your doctrine and your traditions have to be able to hold up to the test of scripture according to the Protestant principle of sola scriptura testing.

Bible avoidance to the point of "just name calling" solves nothing.

--------------------------------

For those who can "see" scripture posted even if it is posted by someone not in your own denomination ... we have this from the opening post.

Warring against the Sabbath - (war against the Law of God) according to Paul in Romans 8 takes the form

Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

It makes no sense for born-again Christians to argue in favor of the case for 'does not subject itself to the LAW of God" and 'Not even ABLE to do so" given the text of Romans 8.

And so -- It makes no sense for born-again Christians to argue in favor of the case for 'does not subject itself to the LAW of God" and 'Not even ABLE to do so" given the text of Romans 8.

Can we at least get to the easy part first? or is this going to be a reject-all step by step?

One of the clear Bible texts you are carefully ignoring from the OP is this reference -


God's WORD includes the statement and in Is 66:23 "From Sabbath to Sabbath" God says "All mankind shall come before Me to Worship" in the new heavens and new earth.

I believe that a number of Bible students will see in that text - a hint about how to keep the Sabbath. Objective unbiased readers at least. And while some have stated that they are confident such readers are not at BB - I am convinced they are. In fact I believe there are some Sunday keeping Christians here who see this in a similar light regarding the Sabbath day and worship.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by Revmitchell
So my question for you is what do you believe about people who worship in Sunday, are they saved or not saved?

No group consists of "All saved" or "all lost".

I thought we all were on the same page on that one.

Back to the Bible.

I did not ask about groups. I asked you if you believe that those people (individuals apart from any "group" designation) who do not worship on Saturday are truly born again? Yes or no?

Some are some aren't. This is not the debate. As I stated above - every denomination is compose of some saved and some lost.

Surely this is not a sticking point???

By saved and lost - I mean "Saved - born again, sons and daughters of God, the body of Christ" -- how many ways to say it??

There are some of those in every denomination.

So also there are lost people in every denomination.

Now what about the Bible itself? And the points it raises on this topic?

=================================================

Warring against the Sabbath - (war against the Law of God) according to Paul in Romans 8 takes the form

Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

It makes no sense for born-again Christians to argue in favor of the case for 'does not subject itself to the LAW of God" and 'Not even ABLE to do so" given the text of Romans 8.

And so -- It makes no sense for born-again Christians to argue in favor of the case for 'does not subject itself to the LAW of God" and 'Not even ABLE to do so" given the text of Romans 8.

Can we at least get to the easy part first? or is this going to be a reject-all step by step?

One of the clear Bible texts you are carefully ignoring from the OP is this reference -


God's WORD includes the statement and in Is 66:23 "From Sabbath to Sabbath" God says "All mankind shall come before Me to Worship" in the new heavens and new earth.

I believe that a number of Bible students will see in that text - a hint about how to keep the Sabbath. Objective unbiased readers at least. And while some have stated that they are confident such readers are not at BB - I am convinced they are. In fact I believe there are some Sunday keeping Christians here who see this in a similar light regarding the Sabbath day and worship.

===================================================
in Christ,

Bob

 

[Revmitchell]

Sine you refuse to answer my question I will assume the answer to my question is yes you believe those of us who do not worship on Sat are lost. You live by the law.

 

[BobRyan]

I said - regarding salvation

Some are some aren't. This is not the debate. As I stated above - every denomination is compose of some saved and some lost.

Surely this is not a sticking point???

By saved and lost - I mean "Saved - born again, sons and daughters of God, the body of Christ" -- how many ways to say it??

There are some of those in every denomination.

So also there are lost people in every denomination.

Now what about the Bible itself? And the points it raises on this topic?

To which - inexplicably you respond

Sine you refuse to answer my question I will assume the answer to my question is yes you believe those of us who do not worship on Sat are lost.

Whaaaat!!????

How many ways to say it???

How can a statement saying that SOME are saved and SOME are lost be interpreted as "NONE are saved"?????

How do you do that??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Yeshua1]

I said - regarding salvation



To which - inexplicably you respond



Whaaaat!!????

How many ways to say it???

How can a statement saying that SOME are saved and SOME are lost be interpreted as "NONE are saved"?????

How do you do that??

in Christ,

Bob

NONE who Jesus died for will be ever lost, regardless if they keep your Sabbath day or not!

 

[BobRyan]

I didn't author the Bible - I don't have a 4th commandment Sabbath - God does. I simply choose to honor it - along with the Seventh-day Baptists.

as pointed out in the OP.

========================================

In Rev 14:7 we find that God says to "Worship Him who made the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of waters".

In Ex 20:8-11 God speaks with His own voice - and states the TEN commandments "Written in stone" as well.

"Remember the Sabbath day to keep IT holy... 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed THE Sabbath day and made it holy."


God's WORD includes the statement and in Is 66:23 "From Sabbath to Sabbath" God says "All mankind shall come before Me to Worship" in the new heavens and new earth.

And Jesus in John 1 is stated to be the Creator - the MAKER of all

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

So how is it that some imagine that war against Christ's own Sabbath memorial of HIS creative work - is "pleasing to God"??

Shall we "Worship Him who made the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of waters". - by being at war with His own weekly day of worship setup as a memorial of HIS work in Creation?

What are your thoughts?

(Of course I already know that the Seventh-day Baptists will agree with this - but what about others?)

 

[steaver]

I didn't author the Bible - I don't have a 4th commandment Sabbath - God does. I simply choose to honor it - along with the Seventh-day Baptists.

Amen brother! As does the Christian and Missionary Alliance.

 

[BobRyan]

Now see we need not condemn the Seventh-day Baptists simply because they choose to honor God's TEN commandments instead of warring against them.

Neither do I choose to condemn D.L. Moody or the Spurgeon in his edit of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" for their affirmation of the Ten Commandments.

I object to their attempting to "Bend" the 4th commandment to point to any day but God's 7th day.

But I do not object to their observation that those who try to delete the 4th commandment are dead wrong.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

Now see we need not condemn the Seventh-day Baptists simply because they choose to honor God's TEN commandments instead of warring against them.

Neither do I choose to condemn D.L. Moody or the Spurgeon in his edit of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" for their affirmation of the Ten Commandments.

I object to their attempting to "Bend" the 4th commandment to point to any day but God's 7th day.

But I do not object to their observation that those who try to delete the 4th commandment are dead wrong.

in Christ,

Bob

You miss the spirit of law and hold fast to the letter. I worship Jesus Christ and honor His Sabbath everyday for He is the Sabbath for everyone who believes.

John4:20 - "Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

John4:21 - "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

John4:22 - "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

John4:23 - "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

 

[BobRyan]

You miss the spirit of law and hold fast to the letter. I worship Jesus Christ and honor His Sabbath ... .

1. In the Sabbath discussions so far - you have been defending or at war with the 4th Commandment as God gave it in the actual Bible?? If in favor - please point to those posts. (Hint: I have given you a lot of opportunities to claim support for it in the way that D.L. Moody did and the "Baptist Confession of Faith" did - because then we can have the discussion on where I do differ with them in their promotion of it - but I have missed that point where you step up to the plate even as far as they did).

2. Your opening baseless accusation is easy enough to sling about - but you have yet to prove it - UNLESS it is your claim that to actually obey the Sabbath Commandment as God wrote it in stone - is "evil".

So at what point are you making a statement that you are willing to explain/prove/defend with fact?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Revmitchell]

I said - regarding salvation



To which - inexplicably you respond



Whaaaat!!????

How many ways to say it???

How can a statement saying that SOME are saved and SOME are lost be interpreted as "NONE are saved"?????

How do you do that??

in Christ,

Bob

It is a non answer to a direct question. There is only one reasonable answer which is either yes or no. Your answer is only intended to avoid doing that.

 

[steaver]

It is a non answer to a direct question. There is only one reasonable answer which is either yes or no. Your answer is only intended to avoid doing that.

Why is it the believer who holds to OSAS has no problem with answering a "yes" or "no", even a non-scripture question, but the opponents will always avoid any direct questions?? Always!

 

[Revmitchell]

Why is it the believer who holds to OSAS has no problem with answering a "yes" or "no", even a non-scripture question, but the opponents will always avoid any direct questions?? Always!

Because he knows if he answers the truth on this board it will cause him problems with the powers that be.

 

[Revmitchell]

1. In the Sabbath discussions so far - you have been defending or at war with the 4th Commandment as God gave it in the actual Bible?? If in favor - please point to those posts. (Hint: I have given you a lot of opportunities to claim support for it in the way that D.L. Moody did and the "Baptist Confession of Faith" did - because then we can have the discussion on where I do differ with them in their promotion of it - but I have missed that point where you step up to the plate even as far as they did).

2. Your opening baseless accusation is easy enough to sling about - but you have yet to prove it - UNLESS it is your claim that to actually obey the Sabbath Commandment as God wrote it in stone - is "evil".

So at what point are you making a statement that you are willing to explain/prove/defend with fact?

in Christ,

Bob

Do you also believe these statements:


Only those who keep the Sabbath will be saved in the last days.” (Medical Ministry, p.123)

“Sunday-keeping must be the mark of the beast.” (The Marvel of Nations, Elder U. Smith pages 170, 183)

 

[BobRyan]

I said - regarding salvation

Quote:
Some are some aren't. This is not the debate. As I stated above - every denomination is compose of some saved and some lost.

Surely this is not a sticking point???

By saved and lost - I mean "Saved - born again, sons and daughters of God, the body of Christ" -- how many ways to say it??

There are some of those in every denomination.

So also there are lost people in every denomination.

Now what about the Bible itself? And the points it raises on this topic?

To which - inexplicably you respond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revmitchell
Sine you refuse to answer my question I will assume the answer to my question is yes you believe those of us who do not worship on Sat are lost.

Whaaaat!!????

How many ways to say it???

How can a statement saying that SOME are saved and SOME are lost be interpreted as "NONE are saved"?????

How do you do that??

It is a non answer to a direct question.

I said that there are in fact saved people in all denominations.

Which part of that answer are you struggling with?

Are you "imagining" to yourself that I really mean to say "There are people who keep the 7th day of the week as Sabbath in all denominations and those are the ones that are saved"/??

Surely you have not gone to such an extreme in making up a case for my position. But if you are playing that game - let us all in the secret.

I take no such position and your argument is best served with the actual facts in my posts as being my position. You are free to object to my views - but you should at least be able to read them and state them with some level of accuracy.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by steaver
You miss the spirit of law and hold fast to the letter. I worship Jesus Christ and honor His Sabbath ... .

1. In the Sabbath discussions so far - you have been defending or at war with the 4th Commandment as God gave it in the actual Bible?? If in favor - please point to those posts. (Hint: I have given you a lot of opportunities to claim support for it in the way that D.L. Moody did and the "Baptist Confession of Faith" did - because then we can have the discussion on where I do differ with them in their promotion of it - but I have missed that point where you step up to the plate even as far as they did).

2. Your opening baseless accusation is easy enough to sling about - but you have yet to prove it - UNLESS it is your claim that to actually obey the Sabbath Commandment as God wrote it in stone - is "evil".

So at what point are you making a statement that you are willing to explain/prove/defend with fact?

Still waiting for Steaver to answer these questions regarding his own post.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

You miss the spirit of law and hold fast to the letter. I worship Jesus Christ and honor His Sabbath everyday for He is the Sabbath for everyone who believes.

First of all I am glad you have finally decided that God's Sabbath Commandment " is a Good thing" and not something to be at war against.

I am also glad you have decided to Honor it. Would you mind actually quoting it for us - from the actual Word of God?

I just want to encourage you and to affirm your decision to honor (I.e. Obey) the 4th commandment just as God gave it.

And as much as I like the part where you quote you in your statement that you think Christ "Is the Sabbath" - I think you need to stick with what is actually written in scripture when stating doctrinal points of faith.

===================

"Some" of our Catholic friends claim that when we refer to the 10 Commandments and "make no graven image" that they are keeping this commandment in spirit - just not to the very letter.

I think that few Protestants are fooled by that statement. But I could be wrong.


in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

First of all I am glad you have finally decided that God's Sabbath Commandment " is a Good thing" and not something to be at war against.

in Christ,

Bob

"finally decided"? Can you quote me saying it is not a good thing?? "Making stuff up" doesn't seem to be a instructive argument.

I am also glad you have decided to Honor it. Would you mind actually quoting it for us - from the actual Word of God?

And this little exercise would do what??

I just want to encourage you and to affirm your decision to honor (I.e. Obey) the 4th commandment just as God gave it.

Why thank you! And I would like to also confirm your decision to obey God's commandment concerning His Sabbath. There is quite a long list, so let's take one at a time and confirm that we are obeying God's commandment to honor the Sabbath.

We have a excellent record in the OT just how the children of Israel honored God's Sabbath within their congregations. For the Sabbath is not honored at all unless it be enforced as God commanded it to be by the whole congregation. Otherwise, anyone can either take it or leave it, so we must hold our congregations accountable.

Let's begin with an example of doing any kind of work whatsoever which otherwise could not have been done before or could have waited til after the sabbath...

Num15:32 - "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day."

33 - "And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation"

34 - "And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him."

35 - "And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp."

36 - "And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses."

Ok, is your congregation obeying this commandment from the LORD concerning honoring the Sabbath?

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by steaver
You miss the spirit of law and hold fast to the letter. I worship Jesus Christ and honor His Sabbath everyday for He is the Sabbath for everyone who believes.

First of all I am glad you have finally decided that God's Sabbath Commandment " is a Good thing" and not something to be at war against.

I am also glad you have decided to Honor it. Would you mind actually quoting it for us - from the actual Word of God?

I just want to encourage you and to affirm your decision to honor (I.e. Obey) the 4th commandment just as God gave it.

So the question is - can you bring yourself to even quote it - in your honoring of it??

I for one would love to see it.

[/quote]

And this little exercise would do what??

ok so "now" comes the hedging? Not even a quote of the scripture you claim to honor?

Why thank you! And I would like to also confirm your decision to obey God's commandment concerning His Sabbath.

Thanks. Would you mind if it the scripture was quoted now?

You know - the "Commandment" that defines the Sabbath and tells us to remember it ... "that one"??

If we are going to honor it - we should be able to bring ourselves to the point of actually quoting it.

Surely you will agree with me on this easy point. I am not starting off with anything difficult here.

Moody was not afraid to quote it - surely we can see that as well.

Hint: Even your own Baptist Confession of Faith admits to the TEN Commandments being the MORAL law of God applicable to all mankind with the first FOUR describing our duty to God... and also admitting to the Bible fact that CIVIL LAWS in Israel are not to be conflated into the TEN Commandments as you have just done. You knew that right? I mean I have quoted that much about a dozen times so far.

(Or maybe you meant to say that your honoring of the Sabbath includes gathering stick on a certain day. If so just let me know for the sake of clarity)

in Christ,

Bob