Does it honor God to break the Sabbath memorial of creation?

[steaver]

So the question is - can you bring yourself to even quote it - in your honoring of it??

I for one would love to see it.

ok so "now" comes the hedging? Not even a quote of the scripture you claim to honor?

Thanks. Would you mind if it the scripture was quoted now?

You know - the "Commandment" that defines the Sabbath and tells us to remember it ... "that one"??

If we are going to honor it - we should be able to bring ourselves to the point of actually quoting it.

in Christ,

Bob[/QUOTE]

Ok, I'll play the game...

You first, if your going to say you honor the sabbath, bring yourself to quote it and then I will. Then we can move on....

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by steaver
You miss the spirit of law and hold fast to the letter. I worship Jesus Christ and honor His Sabbath everyday for He is the Sabbath for everyone who believes.

So the question is - can you bring yourself to even quote it - in your honoring of it??

I for one would love to see it.


ok so "now" comes the hedging? Not even a quote of the scripture you claim to honor?

Thanks. Would you mind if it the scripture was quoted now?

You know - the "Commandment" that defines the Sabbath and tells us to remember it ... "that one"??

If we are going to honor it - we should be able to bring ourselves to the point of actually quoting it.

Surely you will agree with me on this easy point. I am not starting off with anything difficult here.

Moody was not afraid to quote it - surely we can see that as well.

Hint: Even your own Baptist Confession of Faith admits to the TEN Commandments being the MORAL law of God applicable to all mankind with the first FOUR describing our duty to God... and also admitting to the Bible fact that CIVIL LAWS in Israel are not to be conflated into the TEN Commandments as you have just done. You knew that right? I mean I have quoted that much about a dozen times so far.

Ok, I'll play the game...

You first, if your going to say you honor the sabbath, bring yourself to quote it ...

I think everyone here has seen me quote verbatim and affirm the 4th commandment many dozens of times. (even your sideways gaming model could not possibly refute that statement)

The same cannot be said for you being well-known on this very board as one who actually quotes and affirms that commandment.

You sure you can't quote it even once in your "honoring" of the Bible Sabbath?

Not even once?

Really??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

We've been around this circle before Bob.
If you are going to be honest with yourself and with us you will have to admit that either you don't know how, or you cannot (or both) keep the Sabbath today. It is an impossible task for you to do. Admit it. You don't keep the Sabbath as it was ordered to be kept in the OT. You just don't do it.
I have outlined in other posts what you would have to do, but for some odd reason you have always ignored those posts just like you are ignoring Steaver's right now.

 

[steaver]

Mal 3:6 "I do not change"

Heb 13:8 "Christ is the SAME yesterday today and forever".

Those who "claim" to be doing so much MORE than what God's Word requires - most often are doing less.

There is the teaching of "Sola Scriptura" that many apparently miss in Acts 17:11 as they dismiss out of hand what the "NT writers" call "scripture" -- "They studied the scriptures daily to SEE if those things spoken to them (By Paul) were so".

There are 66 books in the Word of God.



in Christ,

Bob

And I would like to also confirm your decision to obey God's commandment concerning His Sabbath. There is quite a long list, so let's take one at a time and confirm that we are obeying God's commandment to honor the Sabbath.

We have a excellent record in the OT just how the children of Israel honored God's Sabbath within their congregations. For the Sabbath is not honored at all unless it be enforced as God commanded it to be by the whole congregation. Otherwise, anyone can either take it or leave it, so we must hold our congregations accountable.

Let's begin with an example of doing any kind of work whatsoever which otherwise could not have been done before or could have waited til after the sabbath...

Num15:32 - "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day."

33 - "And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation"

34 - "And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him."

35 - "And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp."

36 - "And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses."

Ok, is your congregation obeying this commandment from the LORD concerning honoring the Sabbath? Nothing has changed, correct? Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever, correct? So how is your congregation doing as to obeying this Sabbath command?

 

[Yeshua1]

And I would like to also confirm your decision to obey God's commandment concerning His Sabbath. There is quite a long list, so let's take one at a time and confirm that we are obeying God's commandment to honor the Sabbath.

We have a excellent record in the OT just how the children of Israel honored God's Sabbath within their congregations. For the Sabbath is not honored at all unless it be enforced as God commanded it to be by the whole congregation. Otherwise, anyone can either take it or leave it, so we must hold our congregations accountable.

Let's begin with an example of doing any kind of work whatsoever which otherwise could not have been done before or could have waited til after the sabbath...

Num15:32 - "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day."

33 - "And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation"

34 - "And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him."

35 - "And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp."

36 - "And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses."

Ok, is your congregation obeying this commandment from the LORD concerning honoring the Sabbath? Nothing has changed, correct? Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever, correct? So how is your congregation doing as to obeying this Sabbath command?

Are we saved by grace, or by the works of the Flesh?

 

[Yeshua1]

We've been around this circle before Bob.
If you are going to be honest with yourself and with us you will have to admit that either you don't know how, or you cannot (or both) keep the Sabbath today. It is an impossible task for you to do. Admit it. You don't keep the Sabbath as it was ordered to be kept in the OT. You just don't do it.
I have outlined in other posts what you would have to do, but for some odd reason you have always ignored those posts just like you are ignoring Steaver's right now.

peter said that even the Jews could not keep the burden of the Law, so why expect and put that yoke on gentiles too?

 

[BobRyan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by steaver
You miss the spirit of law and hold fast to the letter. I worship Jesus Christ and honor His Sabbath everyday for He is the Sabbath for everyone who believes.

Originally Posted by BobRyan

So the question is - can you bring yourself to even quote it - in your honoring of it??

I for one would love to see it.


ok so "now" comes the hedging? Not even a quote of the scripture you claim to honor?

Thanks. Would you mind if it the scripture was quoted now?

You know - the "Commandment" that defines the Sabbath and tells us to remember it ... "that one"??

If we are going to honor it - we should be able to bring ourselves to the point of actually quoting it.

Surely you will agree with me on this easy point. I am not starting off with anything difficult here.

Moody was not afraid to quote it - surely we can see that as well.

Hint: Even your own Baptist Confession of Faith admits to the TEN Commandments being the MORAL law of God applicable to all mankind with the first FOUR describing our duty to God... and also admitting to the Bible fact that CIVIL LAWS in Israel are not to be conflated into the TEN Commandments as you have just done. You knew that right? I mean I have quoted that much about a dozen times so far.

And I would like to also confirm your decision to obey God's commandment concerning His Sabbath.

Thanks!.

And I yours as you said

I worship Jesus Christ and honor His Sabbath

So did you ever find the Bible Sabbath Commandment you are honoring in the actual Bible?

Wouldn't it be great to bring yourself to quote it??

There is quite a long list, so let's take one at a time and confirm that we are obeying God's commandment to honor the Sabbath.

Ok -- so then were do you find the one you are honoring - listed as a Bible commandment?

We have a excellent record in the OT just how the children of Israel honored God's Sabbath

Indeed -- and what Bible Sabbath Commandment were they reading?

Something "in stone" maybe?

Is that the one you are honoring as you keep it each week?

Care to quote it?

For the Sabbath is not honored at all unless it be enforced as God commanded it to be by the whole congregation. Otherwise, anyone can either take it or leave it, so we must hold our congregations accountable.

Let's begin with an example of doing any kind of work whatsoever which otherwise could not have been done before or could have waited til after the sabbath...

Num15:32 - "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day."

Interesting - is that the commandment you are honoring?

how is it that you find the actual 4th commandment so difficult to quote in your honoring of it.

Something seems a bit fishy here.

Even your own "Baptist Confession of Faith" makes a distinction between civil laws of a theocracy and the moral law of God in the Ten Commandments.

I am sure you knew that.

Are you honoring the Sabbath as stated above - enough to actually quote it??

Does it go that far with your affirmation of God's Word on this subject?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

We've been around this circle before Bob.
If you are going to be honest with yourself and with us you will have to admit that either you don't know how, or you cannot (or both) keep the Sabbath today. It is an impossible task for you to do. Admit it. You don't keep the Sabbath as it was ordered to be kept in the OT. You just don't do it.
I have outlined in other posts what you would have to do, but for some odd reason you have always ignored those posts just like you are ignoring Steaver's right now.

Not at all true.

I have responded repeatedly the solution and I point out that even your own "Baptist Confession of Faith" is aware that there is a difference between civil laws and the moral law of God as found in the TEN Commandments and applicable to all mankind. (Since you say you have not read, and I have posted that section a dozen times or more to remind those who have not read it what is said there - I will gladly post a verbatim quote of it again if it you like.)

I am just happy to see that Steaver has finally decided to honor the Bible Sabbath.

Though for now he is very hard pressed to bring himself to actually quote that which he claims to be honoring - for some inexplicable reason.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Yeshua1]

Are you saved by the Law, by works of the flesh, or thru faith alone in the Son of God?

 

[Yeshua1]

Not at all true.

I have responded repeatedly the solution and I point out that even your own "Baptist Confession of Faith" is aware that there is a difference between civil laws and the moral law of God as found in the TEN Commandments and applicable to all mankind. (Since you say you have not read, and I have posted that section a dozen times or more to remind those who have not read it what is said there - I will gladly post a verbatim quote of it again if it you like.)

I am just happy to see that Steaver has finally decided to honor the Bible Sabbath.

Though for now he is very hard pressed to bring himself to actually quote that which he claims to be honoring - for some inexplicable reason.

in Christ,

Bob

We are NO longer under the law, but under Grace!

Worship on saturday, worship on Sunday, worship Mon NO difference to God, ONLY deal is to be found IN Christ!

By the way, NETHER DHK nor myself hold to "confessions of baptist faith" you love to quote, JUST the Bible is the Revelation of God!

And NONE of those reformed and Moody either hold to keeping the sabbath of isreal as you advocate they do!

 

[BobRyan]

We are NO longer under the law, but under Grace!

The "Bible says" - "Sin is transgression of the LAW". 1John 3:4.


Paul says in Romans 6 "We are not under law but under Grace" -- so don't sin.

Romans 6

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Winman]

The "Bible says" - "Sin is transgression of the LAW". 1John 3:4.


Paul says in Romans 6 "We are not under law but under Grace" -- so don't sin.

Romans 6

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

in Christ,

Bob

Bob, you are leaving out a VERY IMPORTANT part of this passage, and doing so you are skewing or distorting what it is actually saying.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

This scripture is not saying a person has to stop sinning to be saved. It is saying that we were "sold" to sin, we once belonged to sin, we were sin's servant, just as a slave was bought in the ancient slave markets.

But now that we have believed the gospel (vs. 17) we have NOW been made free from sin and become the servants of righteousness.

We are no longer bound by sin, we now belong to Jesus Christ and have been made free from sin and the wages of sin.

This is speaking of a transfer of ownership. We no longer belong to sin, and sin cannot pay us the wage of death. We now belong to Jesus, he has bought us, he has redeemed us from the curse of the law, and his gift is eternal life.

 

[Revmitchell]

I said that there are in fact saved people in all denominations.

Which part of that answer are you struggling with?

Are you "imagining" to yourself that I really mean to say "There are people who keep the 7th day of the week as Sabbath in all denominations and those are the ones that are saved"/??

Surely you have not gone to such an extreme in making up a case for my position. But if you are playing that game - let us all in the secret.

I take no such position and your argument is best served with the actual facts in my posts as being my position. You are free to object to my views - but you should at least be able to read them and state them with some level of accuracy.

in Christ,

Bob

Do you agree with these statements?


Only those who keep the Sabbath will be saved in the last days.” (Medical Ministry, p.123)

“Sunday-keeping must be the mark of the beast.” (The Marvel of Nations, Elder U. Smith pages 170, 183)

 

[BobRyan]

I agree with "paying attention to details". You may want to check some of the "quotes" you have mined because they are not as valid as you may have at first imagined.

But if you really are interested in quoting messages God gave Ellen White with the actual words as she had them printed in books and articles.

"No one has yet received the mark of the beast[FONT=&quot]".—Evangelism, 234 (1899). {LDE 224.5}
[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]GC 382-383[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
"in what religious bodies are the GREATER part of the followers of Christ now to be found? Without doubt, in the various churches professing the Protestant faith". [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]If you want to discuss future events and prophecy about what happens at the end of the world - start a thread - I will gladly join it.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]in Christ,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Bob
[/FONT]

 

[Revmitchell]

More non answers I see.

 

[DHK]

Not at all true.

I have responded repeatedly the solution and I point out that even your own "Baptist Confession of Faith" is aware that there is a difference between civil laws and the moral law of God as found in the TEN Commandments and applicable to all mankind. (Since you say you have not read, and I have posted that section a dozen times or more to remind those who have not read it what is said there - I will gladly post a verbatim quote of it again if it you like.)

I am just happy to see that Steaver has finally decided to honor the Bible Sabbath.

Though for now he is very hard pressed to bring himself to actually quote that which he claims to be honoring - for some inexplicable reason.

in Christ,

Bob

Bob, you are lying. You have never answered direct questions about "how to keep the Sabbath," not here, and not on other threads. You haven't even done that here. How can you make such a bold faced lie when you haven't "instructed us on what we must do in order to keep the Sabbath," as Steaver requested on a number of times and you have not yet answered. You avoid this question like the plague.

Give specifics. What definite, specific things must a person do in order that they keep and honor the Sabbath, and back up each one with Scripture. I will expect an answer and not a lie this time.

 

[BobRyan]

We are NO longer under the law, but under Grace!

The "Bible says" - "Sin is transgression of the LAW". 1John 3:4.


Paul says in Romans 6 "We are not under law but under Grace" -- so don't sin.

Romans 6

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Bob, you are leaving out a VERY IMPORTANT part of this passage, and doing so you are skewing or distorting what it is actually saying.

It is difficult to get the exact verbatim quotes I give above - to "skew" or 'distort' - at least so far.



Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

This scripture is not saying a person has to stop sinning to be saved.

I never said "stop sinning to be saved".

What I was pointing out is that "not under law but under grace" is brought up in a context by Paul regarding the obligation of the saved saints - to honor and obey the Law of God (Sin is transgression of the law) rather then leaping off into rebellion against the Law of God.

The obedience Paul speaks of is specifically about sin against the Word and Law of God - vs obedience to it because as we all know the NT writers define "sin" as rebellion against the Law of God "sin is transgression of the Law" - 1John 3:4.

And of course it is no wonder that John would say that -
1John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

But now that we have believed the gospel (vs. 17) we have NOW been made free from sin and become the servants of righteousness.

True but it is not just a history lesson to saints - Paul is actually arguing with the saints and making the case that they should not think lightly of sinning - because they only have two choices going forward - obeying sin or obeying God -- and this as saved saints at the point of reading this letter.

Paul is not talking about magic accounting - but rather how one lives their life either in rebellion or obedience.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Winman]

True but it is not just a history lesson to saints - Paul is actually arguing with the saints and making the case that they should not think lightly of sinning - because they only have two choices going forward - obeying sin or obeying God -- and this as saved saints at the point of reading this letter.

Paul is not talking about magic accounting - but rather how one lives their life either in rebellion or obedience.

No, Paul is showing a transfer of ownership. We WERE servants of sin, but we have believed from the heart that form of doctrine delivered us (the gospel).

This is a ONE TIME EVENT Paul is speaking of here. These persons have believed the gospel. And now they no longer belong to sin. They are no longer servants or slaves of sin, now they are servants or slaves of righteousness.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Note, we "were" servants of sin, but we have obeyed the gospel, being "then" made free from sin.

Note it also says ye "became" (past tense) the servants of righteousness.

If you believe a person must stop sinning to be saved, then you can never speak of being saved or free from sin in the past tense. But that is exactly what the scriptures show.

 

[BobRyan]

More non answers I see.

Actually - I gave "actdua" quotes from Ellen White on this subject - they just don't fit your story.

You on the other hand seem to struggle to even come up with an actual quote. Is that supposed to be "my fault"???

 

[BobRyan]

either you don't know how, or you cannot (or both) keep the Sabbath today. It is an impossible task for you to do. Admit it. You don't keep the Sabbath as it was ordered to be kept in the OT. You just don't do it.
I have outlined in other posts what you would have to do, but for some odd reason you have always ignored those posts just like you are ignoring Steaver's right now.

Not at all true.

I have responded repeatedly the solution and I point out that even your own "Baptist Confession of Faith" is aware that there is a difference between civil laws and the moral law of God as found in the TEN Commandments and applicable to all mankind. (Since you say you have not read, and I have posted that section a dozen times or more to remind those who have not read it what is said there - I will gladly post a verbatim quote of it again if it you like.)

I am just happy to see that Steaver has finally decided to honor the Bible Sabbath.

Though for now he is very hard pressed to bring himself to actually quote that which he claims to be honoring - for some inexplicable reason.

in Christ,

Bob

You have never answered direct questions about "how to keep the Sabbath,"

Not at all true. I gave both Exodus 20:8-11 and Is 66:23 (come before Me to Worship" and Isaiah 58:13-14 and others. Would you prefer I include a verbatim quote of the texts I keep referencing?

It just does not get any easier than this.

The more you pretend you cannot/will not read these texts - and that I have not given them -- the more I will personally enjoy quoting them.

Why do you think that is working for you?

You haven't even done that here. How can you make such a bold faced lie when you haven't "instructed us on what we must do in order to keep the Sabbath," as Steaver requested on a number of times

Steaver now claims he has chosen to honor the Bible Sabbath - but can't bring himself to quote the Bible commandment on the Sabbath.

There is a certain lack of sincerity in his claim at that point. Hard to take that kind of gaming seriously.

in Christ,

Bob