Does it matter why a person "comes to Christ" or just that a person comes???

[Greektim]

For example, I've been hearing messages to students that were basically "accept Jesus so you don't have to go to hell" or "... so you can go to heaven and see your friends and family" or "so you don't have to go through the rapture" and so on....

I believe that you follow Jesus b/c the Spirit awakens you from death to realize that Jesus is all satisfying and God's glory is why you would pursue him.

But is the philosophy that as long as they are saved it really doesn't matter how? So if they are "scared into heaven", it doesn't matter so long as they get to heaven and have a relationship w/ Jesus (their words).

(ps... this was a 1 1/2 convo I had this morning w/ a full fledge Arminian who could only argue from experience and yet had the gaul to say that opinions need to be backed up).

 

[Aaron]

I think you could have worded the question better. It does matter why one follows Christ. Many followed to witness miracles and hear teaching from one who spake as never a man spake. Very few actually followed because they believed His words.

Unless one follows in faith, he doesn't truly follow.

 

[quantumfaith]

I think you could have worded the question better. It does matter why one follows Christ. Many followed to witness miracles and hear teaching from one who spake as never a man spake. Very few actually followed because they believed His words.

Unless one follows in faith, he doesn't truly follow.

Aaron, if you had been in this first century, would YOU have been "captivated and interested" due to His actions and miracles? Would you have been motivated by His words and message? Would you simply have believed? Where would you have fallen within these categories?

 

[salzer mtn]

When a person makes a professon based solely on the fact he don't want to go to hell, this is a fire escape religion, or a scared religion. When the fright wears off they go back to their own ways. When a person is made to see he is a sinner because he has sinned against a Holy God, this is a work of God.

 

[InTheLight]

Can't answer the question as phrased.

It doesn't matter to me the reasons why a person gets saved, just as long as they are truly saved.

I'm certain it matters greatly to God and the individual person as to why they got saved.

So my answer is that it depends on the observer.

 

[Aaron]

Aaron, if you had been in this first century, would YOU have been "captivated and interested" due to His actions and miracles? Would you have been motivated by His words and message? Would you simply have believed? Where would you have fallen within these categories?

No question. I would have been more like the crowd than the few. But the reason I would have believed is the reason I believe now—the grace of God apart from signs and wonders.

Faith.

 

[kyredneck]

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life. Jn 3:14,15

And Jehovah said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a standard: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he seeth it, shall live. Nu 21:8

The brazen serpent was lifted up for those that were bitten. It is the Spirit working within His children that causes them to feel their need for Him.

...They that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners. Mk 2:17

Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Mt 5:6

A few verses farther down in Jn 3:

But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God. Jn 3:21

God has wrought within those that come to Christ, whether it's manifested as fear of retribution, or a desire to live, or an inexplicable attraction to Him, it doesn't matter, the Spirit works in many ways within His children. It's AFTER they get to Christ is when they learn the truth about things.

 

[Greektim]

Sorry the question is not worded as clearly as possible. I did it in a hurry this morning.

Another way to think of the issue is that is the gospel actually presented when you are scaring people "out of hell and into heaven" so to speak? Or is this another gospel that misses the point completely. Many who work w/ people w/ various ideologies and theologies (me for one) have those over them saying it doesn't matter why a person believes so long as they get saved. And I couldn't DISAGREE more.

 

[kyredneck]

...it doesn't matter why a person believes so long as they get saved. And I couldn't DISAGREE more.

What do you mean by 'SAVED', [sozo]? Are you making it synonymous with regeneration, i.e. the birth from above?

It is error if you do so.

God has regenerated BEFOREHAND those that that come to Christ.

[add] But yes, I totally disagree with 'scare tactics' to bring people into the church. I agree with Pink, the gospel is to be proclaimed, not offered.

 

[kyredneck]

And I voted no on account of this:

...God has wrought within those that come to Christ, whether it's manifested as fear of retribution, or a desire to live, or an inexplicable attraction to Him, it doesn't matter, the Spirit works in many ways within His children. It's AFTER they get to Christ is when they learn the truth about things.

 

[quantumfaith]

No question. I would have been more like the crowd than the few. But the reason I would have believed is the reason I believe now—the grace of God apart from signs and wonders.

Faith.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Bronconagurski]

For example, I've been hearing messages to students that were basically "accept Jesus so you don't have to go to hell" or "... so you can go to heaven and see your friends and family" or "so you don't have to go through the rapture" and so on....

I believe that you follow Jesus b/c the Spirit awakens you from death to realize that Jesus is all satisfying and God's glory is why you would pursue him.

But is the philosophy that as long as they are saved it really doesn't matter how? So if they are "scared into heaven", it doesn't matter so long as they get to heaven and have a relationship w/ Jesus (their words).

(ps... this was a 1 1/2 convo I had this morning w/ a full fledge Arminian who could only argue from experience and yet had the gaul to say that opinions need to be backed up).

I don't think you can paint a broad brush here and question why someone gets saved in order to prove their salvation, or the lack thereof. It's not what you believe about hell, but have you repented and trusted the gospel of Jesus Christ for your salvation. The word saved means delivered. I find it incredulous that people find fault with people that want to be delivered from the power of sin and the penalty of sin. Jesus preached more on hell than He did heaven. Maybe, just maybe, we don't preach hell hot and heaven sweet enough. Just a thought.

 

[salzer mtn]

The gospel don't start with man, but God and works it's way down to man. How shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard ? A lost man needs to hear how holy God is, how righteous God is. The wrath of God. What the law demands of a lost person, but they are not capable of meeting those demands. A man will become plum lost by preaching God is angry with the wicked every day. A man has to be lost before he can be found, hungry before he will eat, thirsty before he will drink. When he get's lost and hungry, and thirsty and learns there is no refuge in himself or good works, Christ is presented to him, fullfilling the demands of the law on his behalf. When Christ is presented to him as Gods substitute for sinners, then he will cry out as Paul did. This is a faithful saying and worthy all acceptations, that Christ Jesus came into this world to save sinners; of whom i am chief.

 

[MB]

For example, I've been hearing messages to students that were basically "accept Jesus so you don't have to go to hell" or "... so you can go to heaven and see your friends and family" or "so you don't have to go through the rapture" and so on....

Is it really hell men are afraid of or is it God who can send them to hell for there sins?

I believe that you follow Jesus b/c the Spirit awakens you from death to realize that Jesus is all satisfying and God's glory is why you would pursue him.

But is the philosophy that as long as they are saved it really doesn't matter how? So if they are "scared into heaven", it doesn't matter so long as they get to heaven and have a relationship w/ Jesus (their words).

Then don't you fear God and His mighty powers?

(ps... this was a 1 1/2 convo I had this morning w/ a full fledge Arminian who could only argue from experience and yet had the gaul to say that opinions need to be backed up).

Good Arminian you should be willing to take his advice. The Bible says;
Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Please don't tell me you have no fear of God.
MB

 

[JimmyH]

For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Ephesians 2:8 Regardless of walking an aisle, signing a card or making a profession, you've either had the Holy Spirit enlighten the eyes of your understanding or you haven't. IMHO.

 

[MB]

For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Ephesians 2:8 Regardless of walking an aisle, signing a card or making a profession, you've either had the Holy Spirit enlighten the eyes of your understanding or you haven't. IMHO.

Grace comes through faith. No faith, no grace. Paul wrote;
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The heart of man is his will and we must be willing to believe. It is our mouth with which we confess Christ which brings Salvation.
MB

 

[salzer mtn]

The grace of God is the fountain head of our salvation, by grace our ye saved. Faith is the work of God in us, it is the gift of God. Grace is the first and last moving cause of salvation, and faith, important as it is, is only an important part of the machinery which grace employs. Faith occupies the position of a channel or conduit-pipe. Grace is the fountain and the stream: faith is the aqueduct along which the flood of mercy flows down to refresh the thirsty sons of me. We must not look to faith as to exalt it above the divine source of all blessing which lies in the grace of God. Never make a christ out of faith, nor think of it as if it were the independent source of your salvation. Our life is found in looking unto Jesus, not looking unto our own faith. The peace within the soul is not derived from the contemplation of our own faith, but it comes to us from him who is our peace, the hem of whose garment faith touches, and virtue comes out of him into the soul.

 

[Greektim]

What do you mean by 'SAVED', [sozo]? Are you making it synonymous with regeneration, i.e. the birth from above?

It is error if you do so.

God has regenerated BEFOREHAND those that that come to Christ.

[add] But yes, I totally disagree with 'scare tactics' to bring people into the church. I agree with Pink, the gospel is to be proclaimed, not offered.

Most of what I'm saying is quoted from others. I'm not giving my soteriology necessarily... just my thoughts on a real gospel presentation.

 

[quantumfaith]

Most of what I'm saying is quoted from others. I'm not giving my soteriology necessarily... just my thoughts on a real gospel presentation.

GT, I "think" that when one is to some degree "motivated" either to share ones faith or "respond" to the message of the gospel presented in such terms it may be a "lack" of personal and spiritual maturity and growth. Even so, it still still may very well be sincere and intentional. In my view, there is so much depth in that small word "intent" that WE as observers too often cannot see or properly evaluate. I think one can indeed respond to the call of the gospel in such "immaturity" and yet go on through life to grow, mature and develop as a believer.

 

[sag38]

So, according to Tim and others the sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" was noting but sensationalism and the results false because people wanted to escape the fires of hell. I guess we shouldn't preach that the "penalty of sin is death(ie. hell, eternal separation from God)." Nor should we preach "that unless you repent that you will perish (hell, eternal death, eternal separation from God)." Or we shouldn't warn by preaching, "what good does it profit a man to gain the whole world only to forfeit his soul (hell, eternal death, etc.)." Certainly we are not preaching or selling fire insurance but I know that the reality of hell is one tool that Jesus used to get people's attention and in sharing the gospel today the reality of the Lake of Fire should not be neglected.